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Thread: Repent and be Baptized...for the Remission of Sins

  1. #16
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Jerry thinks everyone in the Bible who was a believer was already "saved".
    Not true.

    He would do well to think about Noah, who was a believer, who was just, and perfect in his generations.
    And then found grace and was saved. It is a picture of the majority of salvation in the Bible (except for us in the Body).
    Why did you not quote a verse which said that Noah was a believer BEFORE he found grace and was saved?

    The Scriptures state in no uncertain terms that he became heir of the righteousness WHICH IS BY FAITH:

    "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Heb.11:6).

    Are you denying the truth that Noah became a heir of the righteousness which is by faith and faith alone?

    Do you deny the truth that the following verses is saying that those who have "faith" and faith alone are saved?:

    "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (Jn.3:15).

    According to you mistaken ideas a Jew who lived under the law could believe but yet not be saved. Are you not ashamed of the way that you blatantly reject what is clearly stated in the Scriptures?

    You should be!

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  3. #17
    Over 1000 post club way 2 go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Jerry thinks everyone in the Bible who was a believer was already "saved".
    Not true.
    king Saul is the one jerry has no definite answer for except to obfuscate

    1Sa 28:15
    1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    According to you mistaken ideas a Jew who lived under the law could believe but yet not be saved. Are you not ashamed of the way that you blatantly reject what is clearly stated in the Scriptures?
    Jews in the old testament if they had faith and kept the law
    would be saved

    you like to quote Paul's examples of grace from the old testament
    and apply that to everyone in the old testament which is not Paul's
    point
    Paul is trying to show his gospel of grace that he preaches
    had examples in the old testament
    not that
    nothing changed from the old testament to his preaching of the
    gospel of grace.


    2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

  5. #19
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Jews in the old testament if they had faith and kept the law
    would be saved
    Here is what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews of the Old Testament who lived under the law:

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; September 9th, 2015 at 10:17 AM.

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  7. #20
    This is definitely Lower Wacker Drive. musterion's Avatar
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    I used to hear, and make, and believe, many of these same arguments when I was an independent fundamental Acts 2 Baptist.

    Strange, ain't it.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


  8. #21
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    I used to hear, and make, and believe, many of these same arguments when I was an independent fundamental Acts 2 Baptist.

    Strange, ain't it.
    Which specific arguments?

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  10. #22
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Why did you not quote a verse which said that Noah was a believer BEFORE he found grace and was saved?
    I was referring to his salvation from the flood.
    It is a picture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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  12. #23
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    king Saul is the one jerry has no definite answer for except to obfuscate

    1Sa 28:15
    1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy?
    Jerry has picked out and isolated a few verses from John, while ignoring the context of the words of the Lord's entire earthly ministry.

    Why? To defend "original MAD", as if there is such a thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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  14. #24
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    I was referring to his salvation from the flood.
    It is a picture.
    You are obviously unable to provide a verse or verses which prove that Noah was a believer BEFORE he found grace and was saved?

    The Scriptures state in no uncertain terms that he became heir of the righteousness WHICH IS BY FAITH:

    "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Heb.11:6).

    Are you denying the truth that Noah became a heir of the righteousness which is by faith and faith alone

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Jerry has picked out and isolated a few verses from John, while ignoring the context of the words of the Lord's entire earthly ministry.

    Why? To defend "original MAD", as if there is such a thing.
    he only has one dispensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Throughout history men have been saved in only one way--by grace through faith."

  17. #26
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Jerry has picked out and isolated a few verses from John, while ignoring the context of the words of the Lord's entire earthly ministry.

    Why? To defend "original MAD", as if there is such a thing.
    Perhaps STP will tell us what is found in this context that negates what the Lord Jesus told this woman about her salvation?:

    "And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).

    And what STP say can be found in the context here which nullifies the idea that it was the Lord's words which gave life?:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    And of course STP will once again run and hide from this verse which declares that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith plus works:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).

    Perhaps STP is so uninformed that he is not aware that "grace" and "works" are mutually excusive.

    Evidently the teachers within the Pseudo-MAD community are not even aware of that fact.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; September 8th, 2015 at 02:41 PM.

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  19. #27
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    he only has one dispensation
    Dispensations are not about 'salvation" but instead they are about " service."

    The Greek word translated "dispensations" is often translated "stewardships." And once a person has been given a stewardship responsibility he becomes a steward to "serve" the Lord Jesus.

    You might actually make an effort to learn the Biblical meaning of the Greek word translated "dispensation" or else you are going to continue to look clueless.

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  21. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Dispensations are not about 'salvation" but instead they are about " service."

    The Greek word translated "dispensations" is often translated "stewardships." And once a person has been given a stewardship responsibility he becomes a steward to "serve" the Lord Jesus.

    You might actually make an effort to learn the Biblical meaning of the Greek word translated "dispensation" or else you are going to continue to look clueless.
    ah that's why you have only one dispensation
    you don't understand the rule changes from one dispensation
    to another

    dispensation are administrations of how God has chosen to save people

    oikonomia
    administration (of a household or estate)specifically a (religious) “economy”

    circumcision was a dispensation of salvation by heritage with faith
    then the law was added and we have a new dispensation and so on.

  22. #29
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Perhaps STP is so uninformed that he is not aware that "grace" and "works" are mutually excusive.
    That's why I agree with Peter, regarding when the little flock receives grace. It's when their work is done.



    1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

    1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

    1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;



    I know you will deny it until the grave, but you are flat wrong on this one.

    Everyone that disagrees with you isn't uninformed. Perhaps they know more than you think.
    What are the odds that you are right about everything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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  24. #30
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You are obviously unable to provide a verse or verses which prove that Noah was a believer BEFORE he found grace and was saved?
    I was referring to his salvation from the flood.
    It is a picture. He was righteous and perfect in all his generations before he was saved from the flood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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