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Thread: Did God place Adam in the garden for him to fail?

  1. #31
    Over 500 post club Word based mystic's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Cross Reference;4282471]
    Quote Originally Posted by Word based mystic View Post

    Sorry but, that is all a bit too "mystical" for me to grasp.
    probably

    lol

    I was just considering what the standard that will be applied that will allow us to judge angels.

    As always i am open to correction or scripture.

    It seems to me that fruits of the Spirit shall last and are gold and silver.

    rebellion and selfishness, carnality will be burned up at the judgement.

    Love will remain all other things will be judged by whether it is agape love based action.

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    but back on target as to garden of eden'

    James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust

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    Quote Originally Posted by Word based mystic View Post
    but back on target as to garden of eden'

    James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust
    But God allows for temptation by Satan, to happen.

    Where are you going with this??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    But God allows for temptation by Satan, to happen.

    Where are you going with this??
    the key is vs 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

    shows a free will response
    and an (opportunity) to fail (or) possibly be trustworthy if man chose relationship/love (rather) than the law/tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    man thought the knowledge of good and evil put man in charge of his own blessings
    and destiny.

    So man failed.
    Man chose his own self and pride.

    rather than be wrapped up in relational love.
    if you are in love and respond in love you will act to please and benefit the other person. Man chose his own self and pride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Word based mystic View Post
    the key is vs 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

    shows a free will response
    and an (opportunity) to fail (or) possibly be trustworthy if man chose relationship/love (rather) than the law/tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    man thought the knowledge of good and evil put man in charge of his own blessings
    and destiny.

    So man failed.
    Man chose his own self and pride.

    rather than be wrapped up in relational love.
    if you are in love and respond in love you will act to please and benefit the other person. Man chose his own self and pride.
    So when redeemed man begins to understand to make progress away from self unto a relationship as a son, what method does God use to to prove him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    So when redeemed man begins to understand to make progress away from self unto a relationship as a son, what method does God use to to prove him?
    in the garden it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil

    which i believe is similar to the (law) still have yet to assess this in depth

    The awareness of the law is a method to prove man.
    james 4:17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

    mans conscience may be another method.

    romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

    nature combined with conscience seems to be another.

    romans 1:20 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    Satan is used both as a test and a sharpener of character to the believer.
    matthew 4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    It seems that the devil tempts very often is the legalism of the law
    pursuing or acting so men can acquire blessings.
    rather than relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Word based mystic View Post
    in the garden it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil

    which i believe is similar to the (law) still have yet to assess this in depth

    The awareness of the law is a method to prove man.
    james 4:17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

    mans conscience may be another method.

    romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

    nature combined with conscience seems to be another.

    romans 1:20 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    Satan is used both as a test and a sharpener of character to the believer.
    matthew 4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    It seems that the devil tempts very often is the legalism of the law
    pursuing or acting so men can acquire blessings.
    rather than relationship.
    Can't buy that as being what Jesus experienced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Word based mystic View Post
    please elaborate on your quote below
    The Bible is clear on the fact that the future is not yet [e.g. does not exist] and God does not know it because it does not exist and therefore cannot be known.

    There are many instances of God doing something to find out what would happen, and the text even states that specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    If you don't know I have no intertest in further discussion.
    You've never had interest in discussion you conceited blowhard.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    The Bible is clear on the fact that the future is not yet [e.g. does not exist] and God does not know it because it does not exist and therefore cannot be known.

    There are many instances of God doing something to find out what would happen, and the text even states that specifically.


    You've never had interest in discussion you conceited blowhard.
    Another "badge of honor". Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    Can't buy that as being what Jesus experienced.
    why was Jesus tempted?

    was it not for Him to be tempted hebrews 4:15

    like we were in every fashion yet?

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    lighthouse quote "The Bible is clear on the fact that the future is not yet [e.g. does not exist] and God does not know it because it does not exist and therefore cannot be known".
    God the Father Whom is Spirit is not subject to time and space and sees and knows all things

    If God the Father who is Spirit is subject to His created (matter) than He is not truly God.


    lighthouse quote. "There are many instances of God doing something to find out what would happen, and the text even states that specifically."
    Only the Son Who is the fleshly image of the Father was described as not having perfect foreknowledge.
    The Son which was firstborn of all creation is the One you describe in your last statement above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Word based mystic View Post
    why was Jesus tempted?

    was it not for Him to be tempted hebrews 4:15

    like we were in every fashion yet?


    Jesus was a man approved of God because He overcame ALL of the temptations now suffered by all mankind to become that which God purposed for in Himself set in man which He created. Adam was originally "offered" the position in who would reside, had he eaten of the Tree of Life, the Eternal Word of the Father. He forfeited that by disobedience.The Logos of God set in the man Jesus is now that center piece but, of a totally new creation build upon Redemption and given a Name above every Name either in Heaven or Earth __ including Jehovah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Word based mystic View Post
    God the Father Whom is Spirit is not subject to time and space and sees and knows all things

    If God the Father who is Spirit is subject to His created (matter) than He is not truly God.

    Only the Son Who is the fleshly image of the Father was described as not having perfect foreknowledge.
    The Son which was firstborn of all creation is the One you describe in your last statement above.
    Where is the Scripture that states God is not within time?

    Where is the Scripture stating time is a creation?


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    [QUOTE=Lighthouse;4285677]
    Where is the Scripture that states God is not within time?
    He didn't say God wasn't "within time" but rather God was not subject to it.

    Where is the Scripture stating time is a creation?
    He didn't say that either.

    Why not stay with what he did say?

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    God placed Adam in the garden for fellowship.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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