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Thread: Should voting be mandatory?

  1. #46
    Over 1000 post club Tyrathca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by journey View Post
    NO - I don't want people who don't care forced to vote. It would be meaningless marks on paper.
    They're not forced to vote, they're given small punishments for not showing up. Whether they vote or not after showing up is up to them, interestingly most decide to vote in the end.

    Is hardly a big imposition to ask for, less than an hour of time every few years with no exertion? You live on a society and reap the benefits of its democracy the least you can do is give such a tiny thing back. Taxes, even the most limited, are way worse an imposition.

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    Over 1500 post club 1PeaceMaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrathca View Post
    They're not forced to vote, they're given small punishments for not showing up. Whether they vote or not after showing up is up to them, interestingly most decide to vote in the end.

    Is hardly a big imposition to ask for, less than an hour of time every few years with no exertion? You live on a society and reap the benefits of its democracy the least you can do is give such a tiny thing back. Taxes, even the most limited, are way worse an imposition.
    When did they make it compulsory?
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  3. #48
    Patriarchy The Last Great Fairytale Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrathca View Post
    They're not forced to vote, they're given small punishments for not showing up.
    So it's preferable to put them in a booth so they can blindly mark the paper and just get it over with?

    Votes should mean something. It's fairly obvious that when you force someone to vote (by telling them they will be penalized if they don't), they are doing so begrudgingly.
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    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrathca View Post
    They're not forced to vote, they're given small punishments for not showing up. Whether they vote or not after showing up is up to them, interestingly most decide to vote in the end.

    Is hardly a big imposition to ask for, less than an hour of time every few years with no exertion? You live on a society and reap the benefits of its democracy the least you can do is give such a tiny thing back. Taxes, even the most limited, are way worse an imposition.
    why would you want them to vote?
    they don't care
    I want someone who cares to vote
    I want someone who pays attention to what is going on
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  5. #50
    Resident Rocket Surgeon rocketman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrathca View Post
    Come on.... Is this really so hard to grasp? The result is high voter participation, most people don't donkey vote or throw the ballot away. Do I need to spell this out further? Please don't try and argue facts are wrong because they disagree with your ideology though...
    So, participation is so essential that you think bulldozing the freedom to not participate is required? This is strictly a matter of liberty and I guess that is my ideology...thankfully that is the way the framers of this country saw it also. Given that most people in this country take no active part in the way government works to begin with, I am glad they choose not to give their uninformed opinion at the ballot box.
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    Over 6000 post club PureX's Avatar
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    Perhaps if people were obliged to vote they would pay more attention to the process. Perhaps if people were obliged to vote the politicians would pay more attention to them. After all, there's nothing a politician likes more than a citizen he can ignore.

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    Over 6000 post club PureX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    I want someone who cares, to vote.
    I want someone who pays attention to what is going on.
    Sadly, those two conditions are rarely related. And that's the real problem, not lack of participation.

  8. #53
    Patriarchy The Last Great Fairytale Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureX View Post
    Perhaps if people were obliged to vote they would pay more attention to the process. Perhaps if people were obliged to vote the politicians would pay more attention to them. After all, there's nothing a politician likes more than a citizen he can ignore.
    Nothing says freedom like mandatory voting ...
    Last edited by Rusha; March 20th, 2015 at 09:13 AM.
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  9. #54
    Over 6000 post club PureX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    Noting says freedom like mandatory voting ...
    This is not about freedom, it's about the democratic process, which at this point is quickly becoming non-existent. If we do not mind that process, our "freedom" will quickly become an irrelevant concern.

    If we want to protect what little freedom we have left, and perhaps gain some of it back before it's too late, we damn well better start minding our own political processes. And people who don't vote are undermining that. So in fact, not voting is not an expression of freedom, it's an expression of stupidity and irresponsibility, that hurts all of us.

    Also, if we're so worried about ignorant voters, why are we, ourselves, so ignorant? And why don't we find out what's going on and spread the word to those who don't know? And by finding out, I don't mean swallowing whatever propaganda suits us, I mean actively seek out information on important issues and events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureX View Post
    This is not about freedom, it's about the democratic process, which at this point is quickly becoming non-existent. If we do not mind that process, our "freedom" will quickly become an irrelevant concern.
    Assuming it isn't already, and the show-ponies they trot out every few years for us to gawk at and argue over aren't just to placate us into thinking the "democratic process" still exists.

    If we want to protect what little freedom we have left, and perhaps gain some of it back before it's too late, we damn well better start minding our own political processes. And people who don't vote are undermining that. So in fact, not voting is not an expression of freedom, it's an expression of stupidity and irresponsibility, that hurts all of us.

    Also, if we're so worried about ignorant voters, why are we, ourselves, so ignorant? And why don't we find out what's going on and spread the word to those who don't know? And by finding out, I don't mean swallowing whatever propaganda suits us, I mean actively seek out information on important issues and events.
    Just to address a small point:
    An increasing number of abstaining voting-age citizens ARE well-informed, ARE educated, ARE responsible, and DO understand the process and the issues involved, and BASED ON THAT, abstain.

    The majority of consistent voters do not seem to be well-informed regarding the issues they should prioritize, and ARE drinking the propaganda koolaid over and over again.
    Especially in federal elections.

    You want greater voter participation?
    Prove to the country's academia and artistic community that the whole thing isn't a dog-and-pony show at all levels of government.
    These are the groups, especially in my generation, who have attempted to be active in the electoral process, and have become jaded and disillusioned when we get the same results no matter who is elected.
    Last edited by Buzzword; March 20th, 2015 at 08:44 AM.
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  11. #56
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    I want someone who cares to vote
    Quote Originally Posted by PureX View Post
    Sadly, those two conditions are rarely related.
    they will vote
    if
    they care

    that is a given
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  12. #57
    Patriarchy The Last Great Fairytale Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureX View Post
    This is not about freedom, it's about the democratic process, which at this point is quickly becoming non-existent. If we do not mind that process, our "freedom" will quickly become an irrelevant concern.

    If we want to protect what little freedom we have left, and perhaps gain some of it back before it's too late, we damn well better start minding our own political processes. And people who don't vote are undermining that. So in fact, not voting is not an expression of freedom, it's an expression of stupidity and irresponsibility, that hurts all of us.

    Also, if we're so worried about ignorant voters, why are we, ourselves, so ignorant? And why don't we find out what's going on and spread the word to those who don't know? And by finding out, I don't mean swallowing whatever propaganda suits us, I mean actively seek out information on important issues and events.
    Which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with mandatory voting ...

    Yes, the very freedom which allows us to vote also allows us *not* to vote. Anything else you would like to control? Perhaps you would like to force the voters towards a particular candidate as well?
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    Mandatory voting would require mandatory voter ID....... think about it.

    Obama is an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    Assuming it isn't already, and the show-ponies they trot out every few years for us to gawk at and argue over aren't just to placate us into thinking the "democratic process" still exists.
    The oligarchs have been choosing our "choices" for us for a long time. But that doesn't mean we have to keep accepting them. If enough of us would vote for alternative party candidates and write-ins, before long those alternate parties would begin to become more legitimized, and would run more legitimate candidates. And the threat of that will put the fear of losing control into the other two major parties, making them have to pay more attention to the needs of the people, instead of the desires of their lobbyists and big money contributors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    Just to address a small point:
    An increasing number of abstaining voting-age citizens ARE well-informed, ARE educated, ARE responsible, and DO understand the process and the issues involved, and BASED ON THAT, abstain.
    Then they are fools. Because not voting achieves nothing but to let the candidates and the politicians know that you don't care what they say or do to get elected, or what they say or do once they are elected. The only voice we have that they must listen to is the voice of our votes. Because they still have to get elected to have any power. And they still have to get re-elected to keep it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    The majority of consistent voters do not seem to be well-informed regarding the issues they should prioritize, and ARE drinking the propaganda koolaid over and over again.
    Especially in federal elections.
    All the more reason for those who are informed to VOTE! And to make their votes heard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    You want greater voter participation?
    Prove to the country's academia and artistic community that the whole thing isn't a dog-and-pony show at all levels of government.
    It is a dog-and-pony show. That's politics in a democracy. And it's all the more reason for us to stay on top of it, and to stop buying into the spectacle. Because if we don't, the people who are running the show will destroy us all for their own gain. Bet your life on it! We ARE betting our lives and the lives of our children on it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    These are the groups, especially in my generation, who have attempted to be active in the electoral process, and have become jaded and disillusioned when we get the same results no matter who is elected.
    That's BS. Young people in the U.S. have become notoriously neglectful of public service. They're the ones who can speak out. They're the ones that can march, and protest, and disrupt the status quo. They're the ones that should speak out, because it's their future at stake. But they give up too easy, and join their own enemies just to get by.

    The generation of the 60s fought for nearly a decade to end the Viet Nam war and to stop both racial and sexual discrimination. Some of them were even killed doing it, and some went to prison, and many were kicked out of their schools. But they kept growing in numbers until they couldn't be ignored. And they changed the course of the nation.

    Then look at Occupy Wall Street. It lasted two years and couldn't even gain a national voice. And now it's already forgotten.

  15. #60
    Over 1000 post club Buzzword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureX View Post
    The oligarchs have been choosing our "choices" for us for a long time. But that doesn't mean we have to keep accepting them. If enough of us would vote for alternative party candidates and write-ins, before long those alternate parties would begin to become more legitimized, and would run more legitimate candidates. And the threat of that will put the fear of losing control into the other two major parties, making them have to pay more attention to the needs of the people, instead of the desires of their lobbyists and big money contributors.
    This sounds like a pipe dream on its best day. No write-in candidate could get enough support to even collectively challenge the Big Two, especially since our first-past-the-post system makes votes for the smaller parties meaningless.

    Then they are fools.
    A fool is one who keeps doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
    These are intelligent, educated adults who are attempting to learn from their mistakes.
    The mistake of thinking one's vote matters in the current system is one many should learn from.

    Because not voting achieves nothing but to let the candidates and the politicians know that you don't care what they say or do to get elected, or what they say or do once they are elected. The only voice we have that they must listen to is the voice of our votes. Because they still have to get elected to have any power. And they still have to get re-elected to keep it.
    But to be elected, they don't have to get the largest number of votes. They only have to report that they got the largest number of votes.

    All the more reason for those who are informed to VOTE! And to make their votes heard.
    And we're back around the circular logic again.
    "VOTE!"
    "Here are reasons why people aren't voting."
    "Which is why you should VOTE!"

    It is a dog-and-pony show. That's politics in a democracy. And it's all the more reason for us to stay on top of it, and to stop buying into the spectacle. Because if we don't, the people who are running the show will destroy us all for their own gain. Bet your life on it! We ARE betting our lives and the lives of our children on it!
    You admit that it's all just a spectacle, yet demand that we take it seriously for some reason?
    The people in charge are going to remain in charge regardless of the outcome of an election.
    These are not elected officials, but individuals with more buying power than the government could ever hope to wield.

    That's BS. Young people in the U.S. have become notoriously neglectful of public service. They're the ones who can speak out. They're the ones that can march, and protest, and disrupt the status quo. They're the ones that should speak out, because it's their future at stake. But they give up too easy, and join their own enemies just to get by.

    The generation of the 60s fought for nearly a decade to end the Viet Nam war and to stop both racial and sexual discrimination. Some of them were even killed doing it, and some went to prison, and many were kicked out of their schools. But they kept growing in numbers until they couldn't be ignored. And they changed the course of the nation.

    Then look at Occupy Wall Street. It lasted two years and couldn't even gain a national voice. And now it's already forgotten.
    You seem to forget that the glorious Baby Boomer revolution came about in a time of economic boom, when the youngest group of adults did not have to struggle to put food on the table.
    It's easy to march and stand in front of a gun when you aren't living in constant doubt regarding whether or not the bills will be paid this month, or when you know that missing a day of work isn't the difference between electricity/running water/a roof over your head and having to sacrifice one of those this month.

    We have attempted to make change in the ways we grew up learning, making use of communication technology to reach a wider audience and connect with more people than previous generations could have ever hoped.

    And we have found ourselves stymied, stalled, or threatened at every turn by former revolutionaries who have since become the establishment, and thus the problem, but who outnumber and outmoney us a hundred to one.

    So at this point, we're pretty much waiting for ya'll to die off.
    Maybe then Gen-X or the Millennials will have a chance to fix your continued devotion to several flawed systems.
    “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
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