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Thread: Should voting be mandatory?

  1. #16
    Over 1500 post club 1PeaceMaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    Maybe if we adopted a system for voting for prioritized alternatives, mandating the vote would make slightly more sense.
    That's been tried. The problem is, you could end up with the guy that was everybody's third or fourth choice. The guy nobody actually wants.

    A better method would be vote for anybody you want, including everyone on the list, a write-in included, or nobody at all.
    Got Eternal Life?

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    Over 1000 post club Buzzword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1PeaceMaker View Post
    That's been tried. The problem is, you could end up with the guy that was everybody's third or fourth choice. The guy nobody actually wants.
    When, in American history?

    A better method would be vote for anybody you want, including everyone on the list, a write-in included, or nobody at all.
    In that setup you'd still have "the guy with the most money wins" because he/she would be able to buy an overwhelming amount of media airtime, and get his/her name on the minds of the most voters.
    “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
    -Adam Hamilton

    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
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  3. #18
    Member of the 10 year club on TOL!! CabinetMaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    Only if:
    1) You have the choice of a candidate who is willing, able, and motivated to change things.
    2) The above candidate is telling the truth about his/her willingness, ability, and motivation to change things.
    3) The above truth-telling candidate actually wins the election.
    4) The above truth-telling candidate does not find him/herself paralyzed from making any changes by the financially controlled system of lobbyists and other corporate toadies already in place before he/she was elected, OR the fickle extremist constituents who suddenly change their tune once the election is over.

    Most of the time, we don't get past #2. If we do, nobody can agree on what should change, or how to change it. And of course the toadies are in the thick of it sowing chaos for their employers' benefit.
    The current method of voting fits the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result. Maybe if voting was required by all then something would actually change. It might be hard to predict what that change would look like, but it would at least be different.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

  4. #19
    Over 1000 post club Buzzword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    The current method of voting fits the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result. Maybe if voting was required by all then something would actually change. It might be hard to predict what that change would look like, but it would at least be different.
    How?
    Mandatory voting in the current system simply leads to the government forcing the public to continue to the cycle of insanity instead of individual citizens being able to abstain if their conscience does not allow them to vote for anyone running.
    There is nothing inherent in mandatory voting to force qualified candidates, candidates who are not openly self-serving, or candidates who are not openly corporation-serving, to run or be elected.

    Also, "at least it would be different" seems to me to be the absolute worst motivation for changes in or additions to government policy.
    Especially if that's all the motivation you can find.
    “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
    -Adam Hamilton

    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
    -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Over 500 post club Word based mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    No ... If they care so little about the issues and what is going on around them, it's preferable that they do not vote.
    exactly...

    and obama may tax us if we don't vote
    or buy health insurance

    another danger.
    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

    I have not yet met a single person who really wanted to vote and spent a bit of time ensuring that they have the opportunity, be sent away, or been refused the chance to vote.

    we have however here in the atlanta areas had many dead democrats come back to life on the voting roles/books.

  6. #21
    Over 1500 post club 1PeaceMaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    When, in American history?
    Back when I was researching Libertarianism I read about alternative voting systems in California, and just now I found a report on Australia.
    http://blogs.britannica.com/2010/09/...tem-explained/

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    In that setup you'd still have "the guy with the most money wins" because he/she would be able to buy an overwhelming amount of media airtime, and get his/her name on the minds of the most voters.
    I want a chance for us to vote for the guy(s) we really want or nobody at all, and I want our votes to be really counted, not faked. I realize that the media will push their guy. As long as the media is free, thinkers can still access the information they need to make good decisions from.
    Got Eternal Life?

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    Statistically, a 37% representative sample is plenty large enough to measure what America collectively wants to happen in government. That statistic alone is telling, only 37% of America cares enough about doing anything at all about the status quo. Tells me that 63% of America are fine with how things are going.

    Even if you had just 3.7% of America voting, you'd probably wind up with much the same people in office as now. 100% isn't going to move things much, it may sway a tightly contested election here and there, but it's not going to do what the President says it would do.
    "Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch."

    It's either true, or it's not true.
    Its truth does not influence how it is heard.
    How it is said does not influence its truth.
    How it is said influences how it is heard.

  8. #23
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    Me: So how does this work?

    Them: Here are our choices: vanilla, chocolate, a woman. Now vote or else you'll lose your "freedom."

    Me: Can I write in Mickey Mouse?

    Them: Yes.

    Me: Okay, then it's just a minor inconvenience of fascism. However, I'm still concerned because my voter registration information will be sold to corporations in my state and I am losing an aspect of privacy I consider part of my freedom.
    "It is easier to contend with evil at the first than at the last." - Leonardo da Vinci

  9. #24
    Over 1000 post club Buzzword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1PeaceMaker View Post
    Back when I was researching Libertarianism I read about alternative voting systems in California, and just now I found a report on Australia.
    http://blogs.britannica.com/2010/09/...tem-explained/
    ...I know how it works. I also know that it would provide a stable alternative to our current system of third-party candidates "stealing votes" from one or the other oligarchical party.

    To quote the article:
    "How voters cast their subsequent preferences is far more difficult to ascertain—or even to influence. None of the mainstream parties wish to be associated with, for example, extremist parties. Nor are they likely to appeal to such voters to gain their subsequent preferences."

    This sounds pretty close to ideal to me, especially after decades of watching the Republican party continue to plow toward the cliff at the conservative end of the political spectrum.

    I realize that the media will push their guy. As long as the media is free, thinkers can still access the information they need to make good decisions from.
    You do realize the majority of voters in this country aren't "thinkers," right?
    The majority are uneducated compared to what is needed for responsible citizenship, and are easily swayed by the indoctrination of their childhood.
    They still rely on the mainstream media, which masquerades as "journalism," and hasn't been "free" (read: objective) in a generation or two.

    And thus under your system will be just as easily swayed to the candidate the wealthy want them to support as they are under the current system, and nothing would change.
    “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
    -Adam Hamilton

    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
    -Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    Statistically, a 37% representative sample is plenty large enough to measure what America collectively wants to happen in government. That statistic alone is telling, only 37% of America cares enough about doing anything at all about the status quo. Tells me that 63% of America are fine with how things are going.
    That 63% isn't necessarily "fine with how things are going".
    Speaking for my generation, many of whom barely remember a time before Bush Jr.'s fascist "War on Terror," we have become convinced through a long series of life experiences unrelated to politics, but demonstrated in the political arena, that we are powerless to effect any kind of change to the terrible conditions inflicted upon the country by the Baby Boomers.

    If the you feel powerless, what is the point of participating in the system which makes you feel powerless?
    Especially if that powerlessness is combined with one's conscience demanding that you not support either corrupt bureaucrat running for office?

    Even if you had just 3.7% of America voting, you'd probably wind up with much the same people in office as now. 100% isn't going to move things much, it may sway a tightly contested election here and there, but it's not going to do what the President says it would do.
    You'd just have people protesting outside the polls that they have a right to abstain from unjust voting just as they have a right to abstain from unjust war; the demands of the conscience take precedent.
    “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
    -Adam Hamilton

    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
    -Ralph Waldo Emerson

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    That statistic alone is telling, only 37% of America cares enough about doing anything at all about the status quo.
    Among the non-voters are those who see voting for politicians as choosing industry's puppet based on questionable promises that will not be kept, and those who believe real problems and solutions are being masked by manufactured problems and solutions. Sure, there could be many that are fine with the status quo. Making me vote will not change that.

    I would be happy to vote on issues I care about and effect my community if the voter registration records in my state were not being made available for sale. Consider that there is a percentage who don't vote because their voter registration information wouldn't be completely private.
    "It is easier to contend with evil at the first than at the last." - Leonardo da Vinci

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzword View Post
    How?
    Mandatory voting in the current system simply leads to the government forcing the public to continue to the cycle of insanity instead of individual citizens being able to abstain if their conscience does not allow them to vote for anyone running.
    There is nothing inherent in mandatory voting to force qualified candidates, candidates who are not openly self-serving, or candidates who are not openly corporation-serving, to run or be elected.

    Also, "at least it would be different" seems to me to be the absolute worst motivation for changes in or additions to government policy.
    Especially if that's all the motivation you can find.
    How could it not? It might result in a third party actually winning. It might put enough of a third party into the the House and Senate that neither party could control legislation. I don't know what would change, but I know that doing the same old same old results in the same old same old.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster01 View Post
    Obama thinks so. . .

    .html[/URL]

    ant to travel?
    actually, I think everything should be mandatory

    [so say libs]



    moron city

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    It seems most of you objecting to this are objecting on irrelevant grounds. Obama seems to be quite clear in suggesting an Australian like "mandatory" voting system which makes most of your objections moot.

    To be clear in Australian mandatory voting is is NOT mandatory to vote, it is mandatory to show up to the voting station and have your name ticked off. It is quite fine to show up to the voting station, get your name ticked off and then rip up the voting card in the officials face if you so wanted. Most who truly don't want to vote however just do whats called a "donkey vote", hand a blank (or fill it in with a joke/invalid way) card in. On the whole though most people having shown up tend to vote.

    (Note : I am Australian)

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    I think this whole topic is COMICAL

    b/c when I first heard this, I KNEW the reason (who wouldn't?)

    WHY the pres wants this..

    he knows (as most of us do) that the LOW info people, the ones who don't read factual books (only fiction) and ... well, let's call them Watter's World voters... would vote for people like HIM!!

    Wow... it's funny (LOL) how he insults his own party...

    people like this would vote for people like him!

    LOL

    hey, but u gotta give the dude credit... he's even willing to INSULT HIMSELF

    to get his party into office...


    ____

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