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Thread: A Question for Open Theists

  1. #91
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianJOrr View Post
    Desert Reign, Thanks for your interaction on this topic. It's been quite helpful for me.
    Needed a link to go with your straw men, did you?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


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  3. #92
    Journeyman BrianJOrr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Needed a link to go with your straw men, did you?
    Oh, and I appreciated your ankle-biting remarks too.
    —Romans 11:36


    http://therantingreformer.com
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  4. #93
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    One-on-One You over-estimate.
    Here is the discussion thread for it also. It is a bit convoluted with special needs present but about page 5 some back and forth of substance ensues.
    Last edited by Lon; March 5th, 2015 at 08:31 PM.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianJOrr View Post
    Oh, and I appreciated your ankle-biting remarks too.
    Are you always this uncivil?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


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    Journeyman BrianJOrr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Are you always this uncivil?
    I just understood your post now. Sorry for the sarcasm. I was intending to be reciprocal but now see it was a misunderstanding on my end.
    —Romans 11:36


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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    What. a. moron.

    Have a nice life.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


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  10. #97
    Journeyman BrianJOrr's Avatar
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    That is what I get after giving a sincere apology?

    Thanks brother!
    —Romans 11:36


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  11. #98
    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianJOrr View Post
    While I should have clarified it better, if one holds to libertarian free will then one's choices are neccesitantly unpredictable. There is no influence nor causality attributed to one's decision. God cannot know what one will do; if he can, knowing us so well, then he is able to perfectly influence us in the way he wants thus eliminating LFW as it is defined.
    Your dictionary is broken.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Your dictionary is broken.
    So, if God influences your will to choose Christ, is he not violating your free will for his purposes, since your natural, free will 'does not seek God' (Rom. 3:11) nor can it to 'submit to God's law' (Rom. 8:7-8)?

    If man in his fallen nature naturally chooses sin, meaning it is his nature and will to only sin, is not God's supernatural changing of your will to want to choose Christ, proclaiming him as Lord (1 Cor. 12:3), a violation of your natural free will, which freely doesn't want to choose him?
    —Romans 11:36


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    Over 6000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianJOrr View Post
    So, if God influences your will to choose Christ, is he not violating your free will for his purposes, since your natural, free will 'does not seek God' (Rom. 3:11) nor can it to 'submit to God's law' (Rom. 8:7-8)?



    If man in his fallen nature naturally chooses sin, meaning it is his nature and will to only sin, is not God's supernatural changing of your will to want to choose Christ, proclaiming him as Lord (1 Cor. 12:3), a violation of your natural free will, which freely doesn't want to choose him?

    God enabled me to exercise my own will. Not influenced, not forced, but I chose him. And without him I could not do anything. But he enabled me to use my will to choose.

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    Journeyman BrianJOrr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    God enabled me to exercise my own will. Not influenced, not forced, but I chose him. And without him I could not do anything. But he enabled me to use my will to choose.
    Define 'enable'?

    And how is your will not influenced by the Spirit?

    What is 'regeneration'?
    —Romans 11:36


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    Over 6000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianJOrr View Post
    Define 'enable'?



    And how is your will not influenced by the Spirit?



    What is 'regeneration'?

    Divine enablement means when God elected me to salvation from eternity past I was required to believe the plan of salvation - the gospel but because of total depravity I could not believe God or come to God on my own, he had to draw me and enable me to carry out that which he elected me to do which was to accept the gospel message. Influenced is another way of looking at this but I think the better term is divine enabling. God provided the ability for the elect to come to the Son by faith and when we do we are regenerated. What Adam lost was spiritual life, he became spiritually dead but when he believed God his spirit was made alive within him and he once again could fellowship with God.

  17. #103
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    God enabled me to
    By gift? Was the 'ability' to choose sin God's design? Matthew 6:24 Luke 16:13
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    exercise my own will
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Jeremiah 10:23 O Jehovah, I know that the way of man does not belong to man; it is not in man who walks to direct his steps.
    Proverbs 20:24 Man's steps are of Jehovah; how can a man then understand his own way?

    Jeremiah 29:11 For I know what I have planned for you,'says the LORD. 'I have plans to prosper you, not to harm you. I have plans to give you a future filled with hope.

    Proverbs 16:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

    Pro 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, and lean not to your own understanding.
    Pro 3:6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths.

    Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of Jehovah as the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He will.

    Psa 33:9 For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood.
    Psa 33:10 Jehovah brings the counsel of the nations to nothing; He breaks the plots of the people.
    Psa 33:11 The counsel of Jehovah stands forever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations.
    Psa 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is Jehovah; the people He has chosen for His inheritance.
    Psa 33:13 Jehovah looks down from Heaven; He beholds all the sons of mankind.
    Psa 33:14 From His dwelling place He looks on all the people of the earth.
    Psa 33:15 Together He forms their hearts; His understanding is to all their works.

    Psa 37:18 Jehovah knows the days of the upright, and their inheritance shall be forever.
    Psa 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by Jehovah; and He delights in his way.
    Psa 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be cast down; for Jehovah upholds his hand.

    Job 14:5 For his days are fixed, the number of his months is with You, and You have set his bounds so that he cannot pass;

    Isaiah 46:9 Remember former things from forever; for I am God, and no other is God, even none like Me,
    Isaiah 46:10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past things which were not done, saying, My purpose shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure;
    Isaiah 46:11 calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my purpose from a far country. Yes, I have spoken, I will also cause it to come; I have formed; yes, I will do it.

    Rom 9:19 You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
    Rom 9:20 No, but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him who formed it, Why have you made me this way?
    Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel to honor and another to dishonor?

    John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
    John 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
    It is true you chose and that God directs.
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Not influenced, not forced, but I chose him.
    John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.
    And without him I could not do anything.
    1 John 4:10
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    But he enabled me to use my will to choose.
    Yes, not sure how 'enabled' is different from 'influenced' though Guided vs. forced?
    Acts 8:26 God can force me wherever he likes. There is no sanctity of my will, only His.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  18. #104
    Over 6000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    By gift? Was the 'ability' to choose sin God's design? Matthew 6:24 Luke 16:13


    It is true you chose and that God directs.

    John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.
    And without him I could not do anything.
    1 John 4:10

    Yes, not sure how 'enabled' is different from 'influenced' though Guided vs. forced?
    Acts 8:26 God can force me wherever he likes. There is no sanctity of my will, only His.

    Your first question: Was the 'ability' to choose sin God's design?

    I was born already a sinner and already condemned on my way to hell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    By gift? Was the 'ability' to choose sin God's design? Matthew 6:24 Luke 16:13


    It is true you chose and that God directs.

    John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.
    And without him I could not do anything.
    1 John 4:10

    Yes, not sure how 'enabled' is different from 'influenced' though Guided vs. forced?
    Acts 8:26 God can force me wherever he likes. There is no sanctity of my will, only His.

    "enabled' is different from 'influenced' "

    Influenced means God forced me to believe

    Enabled means God let me do the believing

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