Hi Evo,
I do not recall discussing Open Theism very often with you.
Hello there patman! I don't think we have discussed anything before
But open theists do not believe God ordained the entire future... i.e. he didn't create the future, the future does not exist, it is not a thing. There is only the present, the memory of the past, and God's plans for the future.
Open Theists do not believe everything that ever happened was God's idea, open theists do not believe in utter predestination. Instead, some things are predestined, and some things are open.
You say that God didn't create the future but go on to say that some parts of it are settled and others are open. As I said to godrulz, God may have plans, but if his plans involve creatures with libertarian free will then there is no certainty to them and the future cannot be said to be settled, even in part. If you are a dispensationalists, you believe that God has changed the "plot" a couple of times already, so ultimately nothing is really settled but contingent.
Take this verse as an example:
James 1:13-15
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
God cannot tempt evil, which gives that neither can he create it, nor predestine it. Instead, sin comes from our own lusts and desires. So let no man say God caused it. These areas show how God has not fixed all of the future, in-particularly, not the sinful parts of it.
I would say that things are a bit more complex than that. With regards to temptation, the verse you cite tells us that we cannot
accuse God for our failure to fulfill his precepts. But it doesn't means that God does not
allows us to be tempted. Indeed, St. Paul states:
1 Corinthians 10:13
"Let no temptation take hold on you, but such as is human. And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able: but will make also with temptation issue, that you may be able to bear it."
So, while God does not
directly tempts us, he
allows certain evils and temptations to fall upon us. But not to the extent that we can blame it on him for placing an impossible burden upon us. Only to such an extend that our failure is of our own doing and our success is thanks to his grace. This is what we see happening to Job when God allows Satan to temporarily ruin his life:
Job 1:8-12
"And the Lord said to him: Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil? And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain? Hast not thou made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about, blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth? But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath, and see if he blesseth thee not to thy face. Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand: only put not forth thy hand upon his person."
Here we see that God
permits evil things to happen even to the faithful and that he has plans that involve allowing evil. After all, God himself says:
Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things"
This doesn't means that God is the
direct cause of evil, he is not, that is contrary to his nature. Rather, it means that God is in charge of his creation and that there is no good that he does not directly causes and no evil that he does not
permits for the sake of some higher good. God brings good out of the evil that he permits and he permits this evil because some greater good would not obtain if he did not allow the evil that takes place. When it came to Job, we see:
Job 42:12
"And the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning."
After all the trials Job ended up being far more blessed than he was in the beginning. Another instance where God brings good out of evil we see in Genesis:
Genesis 50:20
"You thought evil against me: but God turned it into good, that he might exalt me, as at present you see, and might save many people."
Thus we see that God's plans for the future involve allowing certain evils to obtain. See Luke 21:8-13 for a vivid illustration of this. All this doesn't makes God the
cause of evil, by no means (after all evil is not a something but a lack of something, it is the lack of a necessary good not some positive quality). It doesn't anymore than it makes the openist god the cause of evil because he knew someone would crash a plane into the WTC days before it happened and still allowed it. Why did he allow it to happen? My answer is that some greater good would not obtain had he prevented it. A good which I admit I don't know of, but I don't believe that respecting the free will of creatures is it and I find that particular defense rather unsatisfactory myself. But if God does not knows the future and we have libertarian free will, then God simply cannot know to what degree we can be tempted and could in fact allow us to be temped more than we are able to bear. Unless God knows the future, he cannot be certain that some greater good will come about out of the evil he permits.
This also raises another issue. We see in Scripture that God kills entire nations, including women, babies, and people of all ages as a form of justice against said nation. Now, for classical theists this does not presents a problem. The question
“but how does God knows that these people would not repent and become believers at a later date?” is easily answered given God’s exhaustive foreknowledge. But how do the openists answer this question? How does God know that a four year old whom he killed when judging an entire nation would not turn out to be his most devout follower? How, in fact, would killing an entire nation as a form of judgment be just if God simply doesn't knows exactly how all people will eventually end up?
One answer may be that these people were already set in their ways and that there was no turning back.
However, if we have libertarian free will, then these people are not necessarily set in their ways as they are not constrained in their acts by their nature or impulses so they can, at any time and no matter the circumstances or their state, choose to do good. This does not seems to sit well with God judgements.
Evo
