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Thread: NO, THE BIBLE IS NOT THE CHRISTIAN'S ONLY AUTHORITY

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    You need to preach what True Believers are practicing! The problem
    is, you don't have a clue what they're practicing!
    Fool __you need Jesus Christ in a big way. You better start taking stock of whatever 'think system' it is you have embraced to have confidence in and how it isn't going to get where you 'think' you are going..

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    Over 5000 post club Cruciform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    All you have done, yet again, is answer your own strawman. I asked for a list of traditions Paul was refering to.
    Your request itself flows from a basic ignorance of Catholic belief and teaching on your part, to which I have responded in Posts #66 and #87 above. Making such a demand merely serves to place that ignorance on public display (again).



    Gaudium de veritate,

    Cruciform
    +T+
    "The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    Your request itself flows from a basic ignorance of Catholic belief and teaching on your part, to which I have responded in Posts #66 and #87 above. Making such a demand merely serves to place that ignorance on public display (again).



    Gaudium de veritate,

    Cruciform
    +T+
    The fact that you cannot directly, clearly and simply answer me question is what us clearly on public display. The fact the Paul could not possibly have taught a tradition that was not introduced until a thousand years after he died is clearly on public display here.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

  4. #94
    Over 5000 post club Cruciform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    I am freed from Rome's false mandates and doctrines so I can see Rome's teachings for what they are: man made traditions that nullify the Gospel of Christ. I can represent the teachings for what they are instead of what you wish them to be.
    CM's SYLLOGISM:
    • Claim to fully and accurately comprehend Catholic beliefs and teachings
    • Proceed to then badly distort and misrepresent Catholic beliefs and teachings repeatedly in your posted statements
    • Have knowledgeable and informed Catholics detail and demonstrate the transparent ignorance and errors in your posted statements
    • Assert that your distortions and misrepresentations are supposedly what Catholics "really" believe and teach
    • Stick to your fabricated scenario at all costs, no matter how categorically refuted or hopelessly erroneous it might be
    • Repeat ad infinitum



    Gaudium de veritate,


    Cruciform
    +T+
    "The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)

  5. #95
    Over 5000 post club Cruciform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    The fact that you cannot directly, clearly and simply answer me question is what us clearly on public display. The fact the Paul could not possibly have taught a tradition that was not introduced until a thousand years after he died is clearly on public display here.
    Already answered---and corrected---in Posts #66, #87, and #94 above.
    "The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)

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    Cruciform's standard MO. When asked a question he cannot answer, attack the person who asks the question in the hopes that he can deflect attention from the fact that he has no ability to a cut ally address the question that was actually asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    CM's SYLLOGISM:
    • Claim to fully and accurately comprehend Catholic beliefs and teachings
    • Proceed to then badly distort and misrepresent Catholic beliefs and teachings repeatedly in your posted statements
    • Have knowledgeable and informed Catholics detail and demonstrate the transparent ignorance and errors in your posted statements
    • Assert that your distortions and misrepresentations are supposedly what Catholics "really" believe and teach
    • Stick to your fabricated scenario at all costs, no matter how categorically refuted or hopelessly erroneous they might be
    • Repeat ad infinitum



    Gaudium de veritate,


    Cruciform
    +T+
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

  7. #97
    Over 5000 post club Cruciform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    Cruciform's standard MO. When asked a question he cannot answer, attack the person who asks the question in the hopes that he can deflect attention from the fact that he has no ability to a cut ally address the question that was actually asked.
    You can go ahead and just apply all that to yourself---concerning the very post to which I'm responding.

    Back to Posts #66, #87, and #94.



    Gaudium de veritate,

    Cruciform
    +T+
    "The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)

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    For any that are interested, Cruciform asserts that he has answered a question I asked in at least three different posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    Already answered---and corrected---in Posts #66, #87, and #94 above.
    Let's see what you think. Here is the question I originally asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    Post the list of oral traditions to which Paul was referring. Make sure you include your documentation proving that they are indeed the traditions Paul was speaking of. If you can post that, then Totten is refuted. If you can't post it then Totten is correct.
    Here are the "answers" Cruciform has provided. First, post 66.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    TRANSLATION: "That's not what my chosen recently-invented man-made non-Catholic sect teaches, and I'm not allowed to think or believe otherwise!"

    IN SHORT: "I don't like that!"


    Post #62 stands exactly as posted.



    Gaudium de veritate,

    Cruciform
    +T+
    Here is post 87.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    • Not even close. First, the doctrine of indulgences is entirely biblical and consistent with the theological teaching of Christ's one historic Church from the beginning (see this, this, this, this, and this).
    • Second, your opinion fails to account for the reality of doctrinal development in the Church, a fact which Christ's one historic Church has recognized and taught from the very beginning (see this, this, and this).
    • Third, you falsely assume that Scripture was composed in the form of a handbook of systematic theology or a compendium of organized, fully-formed doctrines, an error that even beginning Bible students know better than to make. Unfortunately, such an approach to Scripture is not only embarrassingly naive, but simply fails to take the Bible for what it is.
    • Therefore, your assumptions and claims on this and other points simply fall flat.


    Not only did I not ignore it, but I have now directly answered it twice, both here and in Post #66 above. Your comments proceed from a basic and (willingly) persistent ignorance of Catholic belief and teaching. My previous statements stand exactly as posted.



    Gaudium de veritate,

    Cruciform
    +T+
    And here is post 94.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    CM's SYLLOGISM:
    • Claim to fully and accurately comprehend Catholic beliefs and teachings
    • Proceed to then badly distort and misrepresent Catholic beliefs and teachings repeatedly in your posted statements
    • Have knowledgeable and informed Catholics detail and demonstrate the transparent ignorance and errors in your posted statements
    • Assert that your distortions and misrepresentations are supposedly what Catholics "really" believe and teach
    • Stick to your fabricated scenario at all costs, no matter how categorically refuted or hopelessly erroneous it might be
    • Repeat ad infinitum



    Gaudium de veritate,


    Cruciform
    +T+
    Did Cruciform answer the question I asked?
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

  9. #99
    Over 5000 post club Cruciform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    For any that are interested, Cruciform asserts that he has answered a question I asked in at least three different posts.
    You asked no question, but merely demanded information (you can't even manage to accurately represent this single point of the discussion!). I did indeed answer that demand in Posts #66, #87, and #94 above.
    "The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    Cruciform's standard MO. When asked a question he cannot answer, attack the person who asks the question in the hopes that he can deflect attention from the fact that he has no ability to a cut ally address the question that was actually asked.
    When are you going to recognize you are dealing with a computer that is full of a virus, a "worm" that eats away at its ability to compute common sense and programed to reply only a certain way? Notice, its replies never change making it all to be a lost cause except maybe for one to hone his skills on how to deal with stupidity..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    When are you going to recognize you are dealing with a computer that is full of a virus, a "worm" that eats away at its ability to compute common sense and programed to reply only a certain way? Notice, its replies never change making it all to be a lost cause except maybe for one to hone his skills on how to deal with stupidity..
    Are you claiming that Cruciform has failed the Turing Test?
    Learn to read what is written.

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    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    "THE BIBLE, NOT ORAL TRADITION, IS OUR ONLY AUTHORITY!"

    Why do you keep trying to justify yourself? Fighting old battles that no one is fighting any more.

    When we are led by the Spirit, authority doesn't come into it. We're not like little children, you know, 'Daddy, can I go to the toilet please?' It's getting tiresome. Can't you just grow up?
    Total Misanthropy.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
    (The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

    RevTestament: It doesn't matter to me too much that the "New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew.
    Dialogos: Calvin, as a sinner, probably got some things wrong.
    Brandplucked: I'm shocked that other people disagree with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    For any that are interested, Cruciform asserts that he has answered a question I asked in at least three different posts.
    Let's see what you think. Here is the question I originally asked.


    Here are the "answers" Cruciform has provided. First, post 66.


    Here is post 87.

    And here is post 94.


    Did Cruciform answer the question I asked?
    Cruciform, like the RCC, as a system, in general, would rather skirt the issue than deal with answering questions.

    Your request was valid.

    Since C and the RCC makes such claims, it is reasonable and logical for them to show line by line and verse by verse why such claims are valid

    For the RCC the word of God is a crutch, for believers, it is the word of life. Philippians 2:12-16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Reign View Post
    ...Fighting old battles that no one is fighting any more.
    Those who genuinely care about truth and are adequately informed concerning their beliefs---and those who care at all about the unity of the Christian Church---can hardly ignore such vast doctrinal differences and pretend that they somehow don't exist.

    It's getting tiresome. Can't you just grow up?
    Feel free to post elsewhere.



    Gaudium de veritate,

    Cruciform
    +T+
    "The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Are you claiming that Cruciform has failed the Turing Test?
    Well, the handle, "Cruciform" sounds like it could be the name given a computer brand but I think the "worm" is having its way with it. It isn't able to make the cut.

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