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Thread: Fast Personality Test

  1. #331
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    I don't care about the reason why the person recieved no sympathy. So, I didn't judge anyone or anything. I just look at the results. I'm a results oriented thinker. I look to see if something works or doesn't work. I look at the logic behind the situation, and I tend to ignore the subjective and emotional aspects of it. That is typical of ENTPs.
    Something something...paved with good intentions.... (road to hell). I wonder who first came up with that phrase. Our good intentions are our motives, but sometimes they are just P.C. correct words that aren't really our owned values. Jesus said out of the heart, the mouth speaks, and that what comes out of us, is what makes us clean or unclean. James 2:14-17 is interesting to me, in that it assumes a person has the availability and resources to meet another's need. If it didn't, James would be talking about 'works salvation.' To me, he obviously means putting 'words' in action. Conversely, however, if a guy(girl) talks the talk but it really isn't in his/her heart to do the thing, as soon as they have money, resources, availability, they don't do it. To me, that's what James is talking about, not 'works salvation.' Such would be a veneer understanding that goes back to actions and never mind your heart motive in such a situation. To me, James cannot possibly be talking about that. Rather, James must be seen as reinforcing Jesus' words that what we do, already comes from a heart that decided long before such occurred, what it was going to do. Agape, then, reaches beyond our temperaments, and already has compelled a believer to do what he/she is called to do. The temperament is subsumed by Christ's temperament.
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  3. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post

    I don't care about the reason why the person recieved no sympathy. So, I didn't judge anyone or anything. I just look at the results. I'm a results oriented thinker. I look to see if something works or doesn't work. I look at the logic behind the situation, and I tend to ignore the subjective and emotional aspects of it. That is typical of ENTPs.
    Again, interesting.

    I'm fairly certain that if you were to fall into the role of the innkeeper you would at least desire/expect some reasonable degree of understanding from the weary traveler.

    If so, what is your rationale for denying the innkeeper your sympathy?
    In your mind did the innkeeper's action justify your denial of sympathy?

    Back to the 'bloody nose' analogy: Since you treat each scenario equal to its consequent (a bloody nose), would your reaction likewise remain identical toward someone who hit you by accident equal to an individual who intentionally attacked you? How would you handle each situation logically... identically?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Again, interesting.

    I'm fairly certain that if you were to fall into the role of the innkeeper you would at least desire/expect some reasonable degree of understanding from the weary traveler.

    If so, what is your rationale for denying the innkeeper your sympathy?
    In your mind did the innkeeper's action justify your denial of sympathy?

    Back to the 'bloody nose' analogy: Since you treat each scenario equal to its consequent (a bloody nose), would your reaction likewise remain identical toward someone who hit you by accident equal to an individual who intentionally attacked you? How would you handle each situation logically... identically?
    I have very few expectations concerning what the public's reaction to anything will be. l have had my own business, and worked in a trade for most of my working life in which I had to deal with people every day. So I've pretty much seen it all, from gratitude to someone trying to take advantage of me and bad mouthing after I had just given them about $100 worth of free labor and parts because they were broke. Plus, I grew up in a very dysfunctional family so have pretty much seen the worst humanity has to offer. It all leads to very few expectations. Jesus taught that. He said, beware of men. Don't place your trust in them and I know of no one who has high expectations of good behavior from those they do not trust.

    If a person who deals with the public takes everything people do to them personally, well, they are going to be very miserable and most likely have a heart attack after a while. I chalk it up to the effects of sin.

    The broken nose? I probably would avoid the person who punched me deliberately, but that would come from lack of trust. Having my nose broken either way would still hurt the same amount. It would still be the same amount of pain. I don't know if you've ever had a serious injury that happened inadvertently, but the fact it happened accidently doesn't make it hurt any less. I had a guy slam a car hood on my fingers. Those broken bones in the end of my fingers along with the fingernails torn out two fingers didn't feel any better because he didn't mean to. And if he had meant to do that, it still couldn't have made it hurt any more than it did. Pain is pain whether it is inflicted inadvertently or intentionally.

    I would avoid the person too, who would say something like the character in the video who displayed no sympathy. A broken nose heals. It hurts for a little while and goes away. The effects of the lack of compassion stays far longer and is far more damaging in the long run. Both would hurt, but I view the lack of compassion as a lot more harmful than a punch in the nose.

  5. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post

    I would avoid the person too, who would say something like the character in the video who displayed no sympathy. A broken nose heals. It hurts for a little while and goes away. The effects of the lack of compassion stays far longer and is far more damaging in the long run. Both would hurt, but I view the lack of compassion as a lot more harmful than a punch in the nose.
    So, you value and desire compassion and sympathy for yourself yet, fail to see the value in giving other's the same consideration?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post

    The broken nose? I probably would avoid the person who punched me deliberately, but that would come from lack of trust. Having my nose broken either way would still hurt the same amount. It would still be the same amount of pain. I don't know if you've ever had a serious injury that happened inadvertently, but the fact it happened accidently doesn't make it hurt any less. I had a guy slam a car hood on my fingers. Those broken bones in the end of my fingers along with the fingernails torn out two fingers didn't feel any better because he didn't mean to. And if he had meant to do that, it still couldn't have made it hurt any
    Yes, physical pain is painful...that is tautologically obvious and does not vary with context. The emotional context of the situation is a deeper issue.

    Would you avoid the person who accidently hit you in the nose, as well?

    I ask this because - if not - you indeed have made a judgment in discerning between the two incidents, specifically a moral one. Therefore, the two incidents are not identical.
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Yes, physical pain is painful...that is tautologically obvious and does not vary with context. The emotional context of the situation is a deeper issue.

    Would you avoid the person who accidently hit you in the nose, as well?

    I ask this because - if not - you indeed have made a judgment in discerning between the two incidents, specifically a moral one. Therefore, the two incidents are not identical.
    I don't believe I've ever said all instances are equal in all respects. I have said the results were equal because the person not getting support didn't get support no matter what the motive of the other person. We all make moral judgments about things. It's part of being human. But, I think we can all look strictly at two results and see if they are equal.

    As a Christian I think the inner thoughts of a person are very important on a moral basis. Christ taught that explicitly. He also taught that results mattered too, and that the hypocrite who claimed to be a follower of God, but didn't follow in His footsteps would have no different of a result than the person who made no claim of following God. The hypocrite and the honest person who just says I don't believe it and never changes his mind, have equal outcomes. The results are equal no matter what is professed. To me this is how I come to my position on the sympathy/empathy issue and what really constitutes sympathy. To me the person who is a hypocrite about it is no different than the person who just flat out refuses to sympathize. As Lon said, empathy/sympathy doesn't dwell in either heart.

  8. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    I don't believe I've ever said all instances are equal in all respects. I have said the results were equal because the person not getting support didn't get support no matter what the motive of the other person.
    Well, now that you're aware of the inkeeper's emotional burden you're free to offer him or her your moral support as well. Correct?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Well, now that you're aware of the inkeeper's emotional burden you're free to offer him or her your moral support as well. Correct?
    What is it that makes you think I ever condemned him? Can someone give/rent that which does not exist at the moment? It's impossible. It appears you have misread me all thoughout this conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    What is it that makes you think I ever condemned him? Can someone give/rent that which does not exist at the moment? It's impossible. It appears you have misread me all thoughout this conversation.
    Who said anything about condemnation?
    I'm simply offering you a perspective in openly empathizing with the innkeeper's side of the issue...which was dismissed by you prior.
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Who said anything about condemnation?
    I'm simply offering you a perspective in openly empathizing with the innkeeper's side of the issue...which was dismissed by you prior.
    Just how did I dismiss something I never addressed? I never said anything one way or the other about the innkeeper having or not having any empathy. It was your analogy and I simply commented on the result end of the analogy. His having or not having empathy for someone for whom a room is not available is a moot point. It doesn't change the fact that he has no rooms available. Tell, me, how often have you stopped at a motel/hotel/inn/bed_and_breakfast with a No Vacancy sign out and asked them if they really desired to rent you a room and were just brokenhearted because they couldn't? This is so tied to their own financial self-interest that it is impossible to know if empathy really exists in this situation, unless, of course, you think you can read their minds. An inn keeper may enjoy his work without having any real empathy for his guests. He is in the business to make money, to support himself. How you think it is possible to distinguish real empathy from self-interest is hard for me to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Just how did I dismiss something I never addressed? I never said anything one way or the other about the innkeeper having or not having any empathy. It was your analogy and I simply commented on the result end of the analogy. His having or not having empathy for someone for whom a room is not available is a moot point. It doesn't change the fact that he has no rooms available. Tell, me, how often have you stopped at a motel/hotel/inn/bed_and_breakfast with a No Vacancy sign out and asked them if they really desired to rent you a room and were just brokenhearted because they couldn't? This is so tied to their own financial self-interest that it is impossible to know if empathy really exists in this situation, unless, of course, you think you can read their minds. An inn keeper may enjoy his work without having any real empathy for his guests. He is in the business to make money, to support himself. How you think it is possible to distinguish real empathy from self-interest is hard for me to see.
    No, your empathic response to the innkeeper's situation: "Walk a mile..."
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damian View Post
    INTP

    The only area where I'm really off-balance is the extrovert-introvert spectrum. I'm 80% introverted. I really don't like people. Just being honest. As a general rule, I seek balance. Perhaps, that has something to with my astrological sign - Libra.
    Maybe so. I'm a Gemini, and Gemini don't believe in astrology.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    No, your empathic response to the innkeeper's situation: "Walk a mile..."
    You're going to have to explain yourself. I'm supposed to feel badly for the innkeeper because his business is so successful that he has no rooms available? I've never yet seen a businessman who is bemoaning the fact that he has more business than he can handle at any one time. An innkeepers goal in business is to be able to hang out his No Vacancy sign.... He is getting the maximum return on his investment when that happens, and somehow he is going to need compassion for the pain of that happening to him? He is going to greive because of his good fortune? You have lost me completely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    You're going to have to explain yourself. I'm supposed to feel badly for the innkeeper because his business is so successful that he has no rooms available? I've never yet seen a businessman who is bemoaning the fact that he has more business than he can handle at any one time. An innkeepers goal in business is to be able to hang out his No Vacancy sign.... He is getting the maximum return on his investment when that happens, and somehow he is going to need compassion for the pain of that happening to him? He is going to greive because of his good fortune? You have lost me completely.

    True to a 'T' you're under-estimating things by overanalyzing things.

    Simply put yourself in his/her place - good, bad or ugly.

    Once you realize this interaction was much more than a mere business transaction...you'll find yourself all-aboard the empathy train!
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    True to a 'T' you're under-estimating things by overanalyzing things.

    Simply put yourself in his/her place - good, bad or ugly.

    Once you realize this interaction was much more than a mere business transaction...you'll find yourself all-aboard the empathy train!
    I did put myself in his place. The No Vacancy sign was out, so he spoke to no one who passed him by because he was full up. They knew that from the No Vacancy sign. There was no exchange between him or the person who got no place to stay in his inn. Are you trying to say an innkeeper sits and sighs and worries about people he has no reason to know exist? You're once again trying to create something that does not exist.

    There is an old truism that fits his position: All you can do is all you can do. When he puts his No Vacancy sign out that is exactly what he is saying. I've done all I can. He has no reason to feel guilty about what he cannot do, or to worry about what is beyond his ability to do. Just what is there to emphathize with in that? Just how is that supposed to be painful for him? If it is he is neurotic and that will be displayed elsewhere in his life also, but that again is outside the scope of what was said about him.

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