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Thread: Delmar's POD 11-3-14

  1. #46
    TOL Subscriber MrDeets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by journey View Post
    And you still don't know what you're talking about, especially as an atheist. Psalms 14:1-7. You have a record of denying the obvious.
    Trust those that seek the truth, but doubt those that say they have found it.

  2. #47
    Fiddle Dee Dee Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDeets View Post
    LOL, Tam, atheist or not, you KNOW I am incapable of being boring.
    True. Anything but boring!
    You are the life of the party.

    Proverbs 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

  3. #48
    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Note I said 'should know,' not 'does know.' I was taking his premise just for the sake of response to show his bad logic.
    There was nothing wrong with his logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Time you hung up the spurs, pops.
    I don't know who he's calling "young" as he's younger than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Im not arminian nor calvinist was only making a point that choice is still choice if you know what someone will choose
    In your example there was inference based on past knowledge. In the discussion of free will and God's foreknowledge that is not part of the debate. According to the argument of those who are not of the open view God's foreknowledge is exhaustive, definite and stretches back to eternity past. In other words, according to them God knew what I would wear today before He created anything. Do you agree with that view?


  4. #49
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    In your example there was inference based on past knowledge. In the discussion of free will and God's foreknowledge that is not part of the debate. According to the argument of those who are not of the open view God's foreknowledge is exhaustive, definite and stretches back to eternity past. In other words, according to them God knew what I would wear today before He created anything. Do you agree with that view?
    yes, but i rather think that God isnt interested in focusing on that.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

  5. #50
    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    yes, but i rather think that God isnt interested in focusing on that.
    Well, at least we agree on half. I am fully convinced, by Scripture, that God did not know, because the information did not exist. In fact, the available information from which He could select a choice for the possibility did not exist then.

    Can you tell me why you believe it did?


  6. #51
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Well, at least we agree on half. I am fully convinced, by Scripture, that God did not know, because the information did not exist. In fact, the available information from which He could select a choice for the possibility did not exist then.

    Can you tell me why you believe it did?
    We have debated this before, nothing about it has changed for me. I do not limit God.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

  7. #52
    Over 750 post club Dialogos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
    So you contend that GOD also controls whether his creation sins or not, no?
    In your theology, is God capable of restraining sin or not?
    αξιον εστιν το αρνιον
    Worthy is the Lamb

  8. #53
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Dialogos View Post
    In your theology, is God capable of restraining sin or not?
    Some here think that God created sin.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

  9. #54
    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    We have debated this before, nothing about it has changed for me. I do not limit God.
    Neither do I. I did not ask you why you think God is not limited. I asked why you think time is not limited. Why do you think tomorrow existed to be known before God even decided to create?


  10. #55
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Neither do I. I did not ask you why you think God is not limited. I asked why you think time is not limited. Why do you think tomorrow existed to be known before God even decided to create?
    I think God is capable of working all things together - there are countless verses that testify to His having foreknowledge of all things. See our last debate on it for some of the relevant verses, i have no desire to debate it again.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    I think God is capable of working all things together - there are countless verses that testify to His having foreknowledge of all things. See our last debate on it for some of the relevant verses, i have no desire to debate it again.
    1. No such verses exist.
    2. I didn't ask about God's foreknowledge, so that is irrelevant.
    3. Stop avoiding the issue and answer the question I actually asked.


  12. #57
    Silver Member musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    There was nothing wrong with his logic
    I disagree. He wrote,

    How is it a choice if I have to do what he already knows I'll do?
    Given the prior conversation, "have to do" seemed to imply "forced to do." If I misread him on that point then the problem is mine but I don't think I did.

    If God happens to foreknow everything people will choose to do, that foreknowledge does not reduce their choices to non-choices. It does not equate with Him "forcing" them to do what is foreknown. Sure, if it's foreknown, they will "have" to do it (yes, I understand the can of worms that opens) but that still wouldn't equate with Him "making" them do anything. Those are two independent propositions.

  13. #58
    Over 1000 post club JosephR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Neither do I. I did not ask you why you think God is not limited. I asked why you think time is not limited. Why do you think tomorrow existed to be known before God even decided to create?
    sure time is limited, all things that have a beginning are.


    Gen 1:1

    here you see time start. "In the beginning" stop there...
    this is an open plane in geometry and any geometry student will tell you a plane is infinite in theory. But we know the word infinite makes no sense.

    So , In the beginning ,time starts, God created, on His plane, the Heavens and the Earth ie the Universe.

    Time did not start till creation, and God did not create Himself in creation.

    Your a smart guy but your afraid to disagree with your teachers. and that will limit you friend.

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    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    I disagree. He wrote,

    Given the prior conversation, "have to do" seemed to imply "forced to do." If I misread him on that point then the problem is mine but I don't think I did.

    If God happens to foreknow everything people will choose to do, that foreknowledge does not reduce their choices to non-choices. It does not equate with Him "forcing" them to do what is foreknown. Sure, if it's foreknown, they will "have" to do it (yes, I understand the can of worms that opens) but that still wouldn't equate with Him "making" them do anything. Those are two independent propositions.
    Can one do anything other than what God knows they will do? Are the able to? Do they have the freedom to do so?

    Quote Originally Posted by JosephR View Post
    sure time is limited, all things that have a beginning are.

    Gen 1:1

    here you see time start. "In the beginning" stop there...
    this is an open plane in geometry and any geometry student will tell you a plane is infinite in theory. But we know the word infinite makes no sense.

    So , In the beginning ,time starts, God created, on His plane, the Heavens and the Earth ie the Universe.

    Time did not start till creation, and God did not create Himself in creation.

    Your a smart guy but your afraid to disagree with your teachers. and that will limit you friend.
    You don't know me, so don't pretend to. I came to this site fully believing in the Arminian view of time and God's relation to it; including His foreknowledge. I believed time was created in the events recorded in Genesis1, regardless of the fact that no such statement is ever made; throughout the entire Bible.

    time is limited in that the present moment is all there is at any given moment. The past is gone, never to be seen again. And the future is yet to be. Neither exists outside of memories and concepts. And God cannot be within that which is non-extant. He cannot see that which does not exist and therefore cannot be seen.


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    Silver Member musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Can one do anything other than what God knows they will do?
    IF He exhaustively knows all that we all will or won't do...if He knows whether I'll order a BLT or a Reuben nine years from now...then I'd guess the answer would be no, we don't. But I was not looking to enter into this debate. There's too much that seems philosophical white area speculation and assumption making, on both sides, so I shy away from it. There's good points made by both too, but too much 'secret things are God's' about all this to me. I only wanted to show what I see as a hole in an atheist's reasoning about God, and nothing else.
    Salvation by grace is not a divine game of limbo seeing how low one can go and still walk the walk. God has knocked us all down and said we cannot earn righteousness at all (Rom 3:10). He has taken away the limbo bar and declared the game over (Rom 4:5). -- Justin Johnson

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