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Thread: Delmar's POD 11-3-14

  1. #16
    Over 6000 post club genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    So no one here believes God determined the crash of the rocket and space vehicle this past weekend? That these events do not fit in to His sovereign plan over all things?

    Odd . . .
    What does the Bible say about it?

    Amos 3:7
    7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Deut 29:29 is a fact, but this whole divining of His "secret, hidden will" is pure cult.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    What does the Bible say about it?


    Amos 3:7


    7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
    Ecclesiastes 1:5 - As you do not know what is the way of the wind, Or how the bones grow in the womb of her who is with child, So you do not know the works of God who makes everything.

    Jeremiah 33:3 - 'Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.'

    Mark 4:11, 12 - And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, so that 'Seeing they may see and not perceive, And hearing they may hear and not understand; Lest they should turn, And their sins be forgiven them.' "

    1 Corinthians 2:7 - But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,

    Ephesians 3:9 - and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;

    1 Timothy 3:16a - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
    Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
    Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
    Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

  4. #19
    Over 6000 post club genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Do the verses you posted counter the verse I posted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
    Ecclesiastes 1:5 - As you do not know what is the way of the wind, Or how the bones grow in the womb of her who is with child, So you do not know the works of God who makes everything.
    The verse is about the natural laws that govern the world, not about hyper-calvinism.

    Ecclesiastes 11:3-6
    3 If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be.
    4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap.
    5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
    6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.



    Quote Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
    Jeremiah 33:3 - 'Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.'
    This verse matches the one I posted.
    God reveals what He will do to His prophets before He does them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
    Mark 4:11, 12 - And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, so that 'Seeing they may see and not perceive, And hearing they may hear and not understand; Lest they should turn, And their sins be forgiven them.' "
    Nothing about hyper-calvinism in this passage, either.
    The passage actually supports Open Theism, since Jesus is saying that those that hear and understand can choose to turn and if they choose to turn their sins will be forgiven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
    1 Corinthians 2:7 - But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
    You stopped short by a couple of verses.

    1 Corinthians 2:9-10
    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


    Paul is also saying that God reveals what He will do to His prophets before He does them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
    Ephesians 3:9 - and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
    In this one you started a few verses too late.
    Once again Paul is saying that God reveals what He will do to His prophets before He does them.

    Ephesians 3:5-6
    5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:



    Quote Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
    1 Timothy 3:16a - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
    godliness?
    You are reaching for straws on this one.
    What kind of godliness is Paul talking about?

    1 Timothy 3:1-3
    1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
    3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Subscriber MrDeets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by journey View Post
    No.
    Then free will is an illusion.
    Trust those that seek the truth, but doubt those that say they have found it.

  6. #21
    Over 2000 post club journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDeets View Post
    Then free will is an illusion.
    NO. It doesn't matter that God knows what you will do because He doesn't make you do anything. You pick and choose what you will do, and that's called free will. You're not a programmed robot, or are you? You make choices all day long every day.
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  7. #22
    TOL Subscriber MrDeets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by journey View Post
    NO. It doesn't matter that God knows what you will do because He doesn't make you do anything. You pick and choose what you will do, and that's called free will. You're not a programmed robot, or are you? You make choices all day long every day.
    How is it a choice if I have to do what he already knows I'll do?
    Trust those that seek the truth, but doubt those that say they have found it.

  8. #23
    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDeets View Post
    How is it a choice if I have to do what he already knows I'll do?
    How is it not a choice if God should happen to know what you'll do? If He foresees what you'll do and stops you from doing it, then your power of choice is overridden (not that you'd ever know it). But if He should simply foreknow what you'll do, and allows you to do it, that in no way impacts your power of choice. In fact, that's exactly where your justified condemnation lies, lest you repent.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Do the verses you posted counter the verse I posted?
    I have to wonder if you even understand Amos 3:7? By the way, I am not a Hyper-Calvinist nor do I support their fatalistic take on the truth of the Bible.


    Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
    Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
    Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

  10. #25
    TOL Subscriber MrDeets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    How is it not a choice if God should happen to know what you'll do? If He foresees what you'll do and stops you from doing it, then your power of choice is overridden (not that you'd ever know it). But if He should simply foreknow what you'll do, and allows you to do it, that in no way impacts your power of choice. In fact, that's exactly where your justified condemnation lies, lest you repent.
    Lol. I'm not going to keep debating god's foreknowledge with you lot. If it makes y'all feel better to think an almighty creator chose you to go to heaven and is chosing for me to go to hell, that's fine. If we can't surprise god, ever. then there is no free will.
    Trust those that seek the truth, but doubt those that say they have found it.

  11. #26
    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDeets View Post
    Lol. I'm not going to keep debating I cannot debate god's foreknowledge with you lot.
    Just be honest about the obvious.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


  12. #27
    Over 6000 post club genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
    I have to wonder if you even understand Amos 3:7?
    I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
    By the way, I am not a Hyper-Calvinist nor do I support their fatalistic take on the truth of the Bible.
    That is good, since all Hyper-Calvinists are Totally Depraved.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Subscriber MrDeets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Just be honest about the obvious.
    Youngster, why don't you scroll back a few years. I've BEEN debating this for awhile. I used to do it as a theist, and grew tired of it. Now as an atheist, I don't see the point.
    Trust those that seek the truth, but doubt those that say they have found it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDeets View Post
    How is it a choice if I have to do what he already knows I'll do?
    Is it still a choice if i offer my child a plate of cookies or a plate of broccoli and said choose one, because I happen to know which one they will choose?

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Why do you equate a technical failure with deliberate and vile human sins?
    You told me that "God controls every human action".
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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