Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?
- Thread starter lovemeorhateme
- Start date
Not really. It's not true in all cases, as I said in my previous post.
Don't forget that when you push someone, they usually push back. Insecurity comes from accepting judgement which may be wrong, too.
"Be merciful, just as your Divine Parent is merciful." Luke 6:36
It is also fear and a lack of faith in the inevitability of the Kingdom of God that keeps the Christian obsessing on homosexuality.
You obviously know more about homosexuality than I do.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923080.html
Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the union. The red states are much worse. Maybe what the conservatives need are more homosexuals. Some tolerance could teach the people to be humble.
Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the union. The red states are much worse. Maybe what the conservatives need are more homosexuals. Some tolerance could teach the people to be humble.
uk_mikey
New member
What does that tell us?
Massechusettites cheat on their partners more, so they can better put up with unhappy marriages?
People in red states are less tolerant of bad relationships, and decide to move on in life?
I don't see how increasing the number of people with a mental disorder is going to teach humility, especially when the homosexual lobby is anything but humble.
:think:
Those are the facts, uk. It should tell you that by and large, the conservative states have a higher divorce rate than the blue states. The rest of your post is opinion and belief, which seems tailored to your own right wing agenda. Unpleasant facts first need to be admitted. Then you can check out evidence-based reasons for those facts and find some answers. And then move on to problem-solving.
Do you know what I believe?
People in Massachusetts actually have a better sense of family values and are not afraid to seek counseling help if their marraiges are in trouble. Of course, that has to include couples who communicate with each other and get beyond their own selfish opinions and concentrate on the fact that their relationship needs to be improved.
And you may have a point about the people in the red states being "less tolerant." That may very well be true and needs to be looked into. And the fact that you say "move on in life" rather than "divorce" seems to show a propensity to avoid facing the truth: a divorce is a divorce and what happens next is not necessarily "moving on in life."
(Actually, my "belief" is not my belief at all, but hopefully a sneaky way to get across my point that when we assume our own fantasies trump reality, we are in danger of looking foolish. At best.)
Arkwright, thanks for bringing up some facts!
S†ephen
New member
My thoughts:
(for whatever they're worth)
I'm extremely homophobic. However, I can tel you that what this comes from is not so much a fear of strict homosexuals as it is overall sexual perversion. What I truly fear most is any (Biblically) wrong sexual act. Mostly because of the guilt and pain they always bring. So, to me, homosexuality ranks on the same level as adultery or fornication or pornography.
So, we have to distinguish the difference between a crime against God and a crime against man to determine if homosexuals should be given the death penalty. Keep in mind that a crime against God could be an impure thought, we've all had those.
What constitutes the death penalty (morally) is when someone commits a crime against man with intent to take away life. These would be murder, rape, etc...
When two homosexuals do their thing the only possibility for harm is between the two individuals. Both people voluntarily consent to the act. If someone is raped, murdered, etc.. then the victimized party has not consented to the act.
Now, a lot of Christians come in and throw a hissy fit over mosaic law saying homosexuals need to be executed. The thing is that we get really mixed up over what rules apply and don't apply real quick. Remember, homosexual unbelievers (in the eyes of God) are on the same level as unbelievers who are heterosexual and like playboy. As long as one portion of the law has been broken they are guilty of all of it.
So the reason I vote no for the death penalty for homosexuals is this: Their crimes are on the same level as everyone else's and will be punished as such at the end of time. I draw the line when an individual attempts to harm the life of another who has not consented. As long as homosexuality involves consent it would be a crime on our part to execute them.
(for whatever they're worth)
I'm extremely homophobic. However, I can tel you that what this comes from is not so much a fear of strict homosexuals as it is overall sexual perversion. What I truly fear most is any (Biblically) wrong sexual act. Mostly because of the guilt and pain they always bring. So, to me, homosexuality ranks on the same level as adultery or fornication or pornography.
So, we have to distinguish the difference between a crime against God and a crime against man to determine if homosexuals should be given the death penalty. Keep in mind that a crime against God could be an impure thought, we've all had those.
What constitutes the death penalty (morally) is when someone commits a crime against man with intent to take away life. These would be murder, rape, etc...
When two homosexuals do their thing the only possibility for harm is between the two individuals. Both people voluntarily consent to the act. If someone is raped, murdered, etc.. then the victimized party has not consented to the act.
Now, a lot of Christians come in and throw a hissy fit over mosaic law saying homosexuals need to be executed. The thing is that we get really mixed up over what rules apply and don't apply real quick. Remember, homosexual unbelievers (in the eyes of God) are on the same level as unbelievers who are heterosexual and like playboy. As long as one portion of the law has been broken they are guilty of all of it.
So the reason I vote no for the death penalty for homosexuals is this: Their crimes are on the same level as everyone else's and will be punished as such at the end of time. I draw the line when an individual attempts to harm the life of another who has not consented. As long as homosexuality involves consent it would be a crime on our part to execute them.
If we kill them, wouldn't we be removing any chance to their salvation? :execute:
I was trying to think of how this would apply to Loving our Neighbor as ourselves. I can't think of many ways that murder says, "I love you!" -- maybe there is a Hallmark card for this?
P.S. I voted "no"
P.S.S. Stephen, thanks for sharing your thoughts so honestly and openly. I can tell you this: many gays are celibate (either by choice, circumstance, faith or a little of each)
Mystery
New member
If we kill them, wouldn't we be removing any chance to their salvation? :execute:
I was trying to think of how this would apply to Loving our Neighbor as ourselves. I can't think of many ways that murder says, "I love you!" -- maybe there is a Hallmark card for this?
Are we failing to "love our neighbor" when we do not put to death those who murder the innocent? How about the child molestor, or the rapist or adulteror? Are we "removing any chance" of those who commit capital crimes from receiving Christ as they sit waiting for their execution, or are they now in a position where they can be given an opportunity to repent? Who do you know that is not going to die at somepoint in their life? Who do you know that could not possibly die today? Are you 100% positive that YOU won't?
You lost me...murdering the innocent (and therefor paying a penalty) is completely different than a child molester, rapist, or adulterer (although all those crimes are horrible, I didn't know there was a death penalty for them - Christian or otherwise).
No, you aren't removing any chance for capital crimes folks from receiving Christ. You are limiting their time to do it as due penalty for their crime.
I'm not even sure why you asked the last 3 questions since we all know the answers to them. Nor do I understand how you could link the two. Didn't Hitler have the same philosophy toward the Jews, Gays, and Free Masons and Jehovah witnesses?
What will you be targetting next? Slaughter any non-believer? And how exactly again is that loving them?
P.S. I'm going horseback riding, so you'll have to be patient if you expect a response...I don't sit at my computer waiting to serve you.
Mystery
New member
So not only are you pro-homo, but you also want to protect rapists, adulterers, and child-rapists?
You are one sick disgusting pervert. :vomit:
Just how long do you think it takes?
Now you are calling homos, innocent?
You are no Christian.
You are really stupid.
Is that what you folks up on Brokeback Mountain call it? :flamer:
You are no Christian.
Nothing you said above represents how Christ would respond. Zero, zilch, nada.
I think you are nothing but a troll...you aren't a right wing zealot, you are a pharisy. You twist words for your own sinful desires. Discusting really.
How is NOT killing someone protecting them? I also don't think you should kill thieves, or murder someone who's speeding, or slaughter someone who lied about taking steroids. But that doesn't mean I'm "protecting" them. It means that I want them to apply the appropriate penalty.
You seem to focus on homosexuality quite a bit. Perhaps you need to reveal why.
If you are going to slaughter ANYONE for any sin they have committed (regardless of severity), you are NOT a Christian. If you are going to enforce the law, awesome. Taking it into your own hands, warping it, etc. is all deception. You seem to be very good at that. There was a great deceiver in the Bible...you seem to follow his teachings quite well.
Mystery
New member
No kidding.
Wait, a liar as well? That (stating that I'm a troll using the icon) is not in my post that you are quoting. Hmm...great deceiver indeed. I'd recommend you edit that out as it violates the TOS TOL in 3 seperate places.
ShadowMaid
New member
I don't believe the death penalty is reserved for those who only intend to take a life. Adultery and rape don't have the intention of taking away a life, but more or less using life in a perverse intent.
Here in Romans 1 (KJV)
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Homosexuals are clearly described here, and their acts are "against nature." And in the bold text, you see they're even deserving of death.
God. Not Mystery or Litehouse or stipe. God.
ShadowMaid
New member
Very astute of you to notice that. Do you deny that God delegated authority to the government?
No. Move to Iran and your death dreams will come true.
ShadowMaid
New member
I haven't noticed you on TOL before, so welcome to TOL.
I'm not entirely sure you're debating my point. Is there something else you're trying to say? Or are you trying to point out that I have death dreams?
I haven't noticed you on TOL before, so welcome to TOL.
I'm not entirely sure you're debating my point. Is there something else you're trying to say? Or are you trying to point out that I have death dreams?
I assume you are in favor of murdering homosexuals. True? I believe that is a sick desire. If the notion of murdering homosexuals appeals to you, you might consider moving to a place where that atrocity is practiced. Iran, for example.
ShadowMaid
New member
I'm not in favor of murdering homosexual's, actually. Execution and murder are two different things. And as you can see in Roman's, homosexual's are deserving of the death penalty.
God has given the power of execution to the government. He has explained righteous ways to keep the system pure. The problem comes when humans fall to selfish desires.
The judgment of God will come, but if we fail to do our duty that God has laid out for us, and just keep saying, "It's up to God, leave it to God. Leave it to God." Nothing will get done, and that's not taking responsibility.