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Thread: James White Contradicts Himself on God the Son's Natures

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    Super Moderator Jefferson's Avatar
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    James White Contradicts Himself on God the Son's Natures

    Last edited by Jefferson; September 18th, 2014 at 09:07 AM.
    WARNING: Graphic video here.

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    James White promotes a "God" that lies, so nothing that comes out of his piehole surprises me.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    James White promotes a "God" that lies, so nothing that comes out of his piehole surprises me.
    Both James White and Bob Enyart argue that the nature of the Lord changed, arguing that when He came down to earth He became man. The problem with this argument is the fact that the Scriptures reveal that the Lord Jesus was Son of Man before He came to the earth, as witnessed by His own words here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    Here the pronoun "he" must refer to "the Son of Man" so before he came to earth He was in heaven as the Son of Man. The only change that took place was in "time" when He put on a flesh and blood body. We can also see the same teaching here:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as the Son of Man. Thsat means that before He came down to earth He was man. And this should surprise no one, since we read the following about Him:

    "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).

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    Patron Saint of SMACK Delmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Both James White and Bob Enyart argue that the nature of the Lord changed, arguing that when He came down to earth He became man. The problem with this argument is the fact that the Scriptures reveal that the Lord Jesus was Son of Man before He came to the earth, as witnessed by His own words here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    Here the pronoun "he" must refer to "the Son of Man" so before he came to earth He was in heaven as the Son of Man. The only change that took place was in "time" when He put on a flesh and blood body. We can also see the same teaching here:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as the Son of Man. Thsat means that before He came down to earth He was man. And this should surprise no one, since we read the following about Him:

    "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).
    John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

    How do you become something that you already are?

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
    John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

    How do you become something that you already are?
    You assume that a flesh and blood body is essential to being a "man". But when the Man Jesus Christ ascended into the heavenly kingdom of God He did not enter with a flesh and blood body:

    "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Cor.15:49-50).

    The Lord Jesus is now sitting at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly kingdom without a flesh and blood body but despite that fact He remains a Man.

    Therefore, a flesh and blood body is not essential to being a man.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; September 19th, 2014 at 08:44 AM.

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    He did become a man.

    John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    He did become a man.

    John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
    You assume that a flesh and blood body is essential to being a "man". But when the Man Jesus Christ ascended into the heavenly kingdom of God He did not enter with a flesh and blood body:

    "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Cor.15:49-50).

    The Lord Jesus is now sitting at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly kingdom without a flesh and blood body but despite that fact He remains a Man.

    Therefore, a flesh and blood body is not essential to being a man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You assume that a flesh and blood body is essential to being a "man". But when the Man Jesus Christ ascended into the heavenly kingdom of God He did not enter with a flesh and blood body:

    "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Cor.15:49-50).

    The Lord Jesus is now sitting at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly kingdom without a flesh and blood body but despite that fact He remains a Man.

    Therefore, a flesh and blood body is not essential to being a man.
    Read the verse till you understand it, it says God is Spirit not God is a man. Pretty clear to me. In fact the bible says specifically that God is not a man.


    Numbers 23:19

    19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Read the verse till you understand it, it says God is Spirit not God is a man. Pretty clear to me. In fact the bible says specifically that God is not a man.

    Numbers 23:19

    19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
    Here is another translation of the same verse:

    "God is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes His mind. Does He speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?" (HCSB).

    "That is the only translation which can be reconciled with what the Lord Jesus Himself said here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    Here the pronoun "he" must refer to "the Son of Man" so before he came to earth He was in heaven as the Son of Man.. We can also see the same teaching here:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as the Son of Man. That means that before He came down to earth He was Man. And this should surprise no one, since we read the following about Him:

    "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).

    Besides that, men are made in the image and likeness of God. How can that happen unless one of the three Persons of the Godhead is man?:

    "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen.1:26-27).

    It is not difficult to understand who is being referredto here:

    "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" (Gen.3:22).
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; October 18th, 2014 at 07:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Both James White and Bob Enyart argue that the nature of the Lord changed, arguing that when He came down to earth He became man. The problem with this argument is the fact that the Scriptures reveal that the Lord Jesus was Son of Man before He came to the earth, as witnessed by His own words here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    Here the pronoun "he" must refer to "the Son of Man" so before he came to earth He was in heaven as the Son of Man. The only change that took place was in "time" when He put on a flesh and blood body. We can also see the same teaching here:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as the Son of Man. Thsat means that before He came down to earth He was man. And this should surprise no one, since we read the following about Him:

    "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).

    Get a grip, Jerry. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Get a grip, Jerry. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD.
    As usual, you answer NOTHING. As usual, you just IGNORE everything in the Bible which contradict your preconceived ideas.

    Why don't you grow up?

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    Two witnesses and Jerry's error.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Both James White and Bob Enyart argue that the nature of the Lord changed, arguing that when He came down to earth He became man.

    The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as the Son of Man. Thsat means that before He came down to earth He was man. And this should surprise no one, since we read the following about Him:

    "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).



    Three more witness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
    John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

    How do you become something that you already are?
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    He did become a man.

    John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Get a grip, Jerry. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD.



    And then Jerry's error repeated below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    As usual, you answer NOTHING. As usual, you just IGNORE everything in the Bible which contradict your preconceived ideas.

    Why don't you grow up?
    The Apostle Paul wrote John 1:1, and he makes it clear that Jesus was God from the beginning. That isn't my "preconceived idea", but the very Truth that makes your error very plain to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    The Apostle Paul wrote John 1:1, and he makes it clear that Jesus was God from the beginning. That isn't my "preconceived idea", but the very Truth that makes your error very plain to see.
    The truth that the Lord Jesus has always been God does not rule out the idea that He has also always been Man. Was He not both Man and God while He walked the earth? Is He not both Man and God now?

    Two witnesses and Jerry's error.
    The only witness that matters is the Bible and you obviously do not believe the fact that the Scriptures reveal that the Lord Jesus was Son of Man before He came to the earth, as witnessed by His own words here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    Here the pronoun "he" must refer to "the Son of Man" so before he came to earth He was in heaven as the Son of Man. We can also see the same teaching here:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as the Son of Man. That means that before He came down to earth He was man. And this should surprise no one, since we read the following about Him:

    "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).

    You do not even attempt to address those things which witness to the truth that the Lord Jesus was always Man and He was always God. and neither did you even attempt to address the following things found in the Bible which witness to the truth that men are made in the image and likeness of God. How can that happen unless one of the three Persons of the Godhead is man?:

    "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen.1:26-27).

    It is not difficult to understand who is being referred to here:

    "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" (Gen.3:22).

    All I see from you is the fact that you place more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

    That is evident because you use the opinion of others as your witness!

    Sad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The truth that the Lord Jesus has always been God does not rule out the idea that He has also always been Man. Was He not both Man and God while He walked the earth? Is He not both Man and God now?
    Of course it does. He was God in the beginning, and then He created man. The woman came out of the man and our Lord is the seed of the woman. He's the seed of the woman which is how He became flesh and dwelt among us.





    The only witness that matters is the Bible and you obviously do not believe the fact that the Scriptures reveal that the Lord Jesus was Son of Man before He came to the earth, as witnessed by His own words here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    Here the pronoun "he" must refer to "the Son of Man" so before he came to earth He was in heaven as the Son of Man. We can also see the same teaching here:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as the Son of Man. That means that before He came down to earth He was man. And this should surprise no one, since we read the following about Him:

    "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).
    The Lord came down from heaven as the living bread, too, does that mean He was bread from the beginning?

    John 6:51KJV
    I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

    You do not even attempt to address those things which witness to the truth that the Lord Jesus was always Man and He was always God. and neither did you even attempt to address the following things found in the Bible which witness to the truth that men are made in the image and likeness of God. How can that happen unless one of the three Persons of the Godhead is man?:

    "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen.1:26-27).

    It is not difficult to understand who is being referred to here:

    "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" (Gen.3:22).

    All I see from you is the fact that you place more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

    That is evident because you use the opinion of others as your witness!

    Sad!
    What's sad is that you're so desperate to promote your vain imaginings that you try to make a verse say something it doesn't. He referred to Himself as the Son of man many times....that verse is not saying He was the son of man before He was born of a woman. And being made in the image of God does not mean that God was a man before He created man in His image and likeness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    He referred to Himself as the Son of man many times....that verse is not saying He was the son of man before He was born of a woman.
    Yes, the Lord Jesus referred to Himself as "Son of Man" many times and He used those words when he was referring to Himself as Man. You evidently have not figured that out yet.

    And the same is true when the Lord Jesus used the words "Son of Man" here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    Here the pronoun "he" must refer to "the Son of Man" so before He came to earth He was in heaven as the Son of Man. You are unable to explain why the Lord Jesus would say such a thing if He wasn't Man before He came to the earth.

    We can also see the same teaching here:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as the Son of Man. That means that before He came down to earth He was man. And again you have nothing to say as to why we read that He that came down from heaven as Man.

    This is just another example of you having no use for verses which contradict your mistaken ideas. And like clockwork you had nothing intelligent to say about what I said here:

    Here we see that men are made in the image and likeness of God. How can that happen unless one of the three Persons of the Godhead is man?:

    "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen.1:26-27).

    It is not difficult to understand who is being referred to here:

    "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" (Gen.3:22).

    Here is all you can say about those verses:

    And being made in the image of God does not mean that God was a man before He created man in His image and likeness.
    Says you! But who are you? Where is your evidence from the Scriptures?

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