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Thread: Jesus is God

  1. #91
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    We do. ... There is One God...period.

    Interesting to note that God's Word describes Jesus with the same attributes that only the one true God has.

    Jesus is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. He is the Truth...He is the Life.



    Jesus is called God...He is called Lord..He is the King of Kings.



    We know who Jesus is by His work and His actions....things only God can do. Jesus can forgive sin. He is the judge. Jesus is the Creator, and He maintains it. Jesus raises the dead.



    Only God can be worshipped and we see that angels worship Jesus...people worshipped Him. And...Jesus claims equality with the Father, and the Holy Spirit.



    Yes as you stated...as God's Word states...there is One true God.

    Jesus is not omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient. He does not know when he will return, but his God knows.

    Jesus is not called God. Now Jesus Christ is Lord made so by his God. Who? His God.

    Kings in the OT were worshipped also.

    Jesus NEVER claimed to be equal to his father. He said his Father is greater THAN ALL.

    You listen to the wrong people friend.

    Jesus Christ tells that his FATHER is the ONLY true God. Listen to your Lord, not your socila club.


    Posted from the TOL App!
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  2. #92
    Over 6000 post club genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post
    How could you conclude that? Yes he is the Son, and our Lord and God who is an existential personification of the Father-I AM. In spirit they are indistinguishable to us.
    Let me get this straight. (I hope)

    You believe Jesus is the Son of God, but you don't know the difference between the Son of God and the Father?
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post
    Jesus chose as his title "Son of Man" from the Book of Enoch.
    Not all of us have the Book of Enoch in our Bible.
    We do have the Book of Daniel.

    Daniel 7:13
    13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.


    It appears Daniel saw the Son of man brought before the Ancient of days by the clouds of heaven.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  4. #94
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post
    Jesus chose as his title "Son of Man" from the Book of Enoch.









    The Son of Man





    Fragment of 1 Enoch (Scrolls of the Dead Sea).

    Fragment of 1 Enoch (Scrolls of the Dead Sea) (!!!)



    And there I saw the One to Whom belongs the time before time, and His head was white like wool. With Him was another being, whose countenance had the appearance of a man, and his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels. I asked the angel who went with me [...] concerning that son of and who he was, and whence he was, and why he went with the One to Whom belongs the time before time.



    He answered and said to me: 'This is the son of man who has righteousness, with whom dwells righteousness, and who reveals all the treasures of that which is hidden, because the Lord of the spirits has chosen him, and whose lot has the pre-eminence before the Lord of the spirits in uprightness for ever. This son of man whom you have seen shall raise up the kings and the mighty from their seats and the strong from their thrones, and shall loosen the reins of the strong and break the teeth of the sinners.'



    And at that hour that Son of Man was named in the presence of the Lord of the spirits, and his name before the the One to Whom belongs the time before time. Yes, before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of the heaven were made, his name was named before the Lord of the spirits. He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall, and he shall be the light of the gentiles and the hope of those who are troubled of heart. All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him, and will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of the spirits. For this reason has he been chosen and hidden before Him, before the creation of the world and for ever more. The wisdom of the Lord of the spirits has revealed him to the holy and righteous; for he has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness, and have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of the spirits: for in his name they are saved, and according to his good pleasure has it been in regard to their life.





    In these days downcast in countenance shall the kings of the earth have become, and the strong who possess the land because of the works of their hands, for on the day of their anguish and affliction they shall not be able to save themselves. And I will give them over into the hands of My elect: as straw in the fire so shall they burn before the face of the holy, as lead in the water shall they sink before the face of the righteous, and no trace of them shall any more be found.

    And on the day of their affliction there shall be rest on the earth, and before them they shall fall and not rise again. There shall be no one to take them with his hands and raise them, for they have denied the Lord of the spirits and His Messiah. The name of the Lord of the spirits be blessed."



    [1 Enoch 46.1-4;

    1 Enoch 48.2-10]

    Thank you, it kind of supports my thoughts.

    Our God is the Lord of the spirits and his Messiah was spirit driven by the spiritual son of God, Christ.


    Posted from the TOL App!
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  5. #95
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Not all of us have the Book of Enoch in our Bible.

    We do have the Book of Daniel.


    Daniel 7:13

    13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

    Yep, the Son of Man went before his God.


    Posted from the TOL App!
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  6. #96
    Silver Member 6days's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie

    Quote Originally Posted by 6days

    There is One God...period.

    Interesting to note that God's Word describes Jesus with the same attributes that only the one true God has.*
    Jesus is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. He is the Truth...He is the Life.

    Jesus is called God...He is called Lord..He is the King of Kings.

    We know who Jesus is by His work and His actions....things only God can do. Jesus can forgive sin. He is the judge. Jesus is the Creator, and He maintains it. Jesus raises the dead.

    Only God can be worshipped and we see that angels worship Jesus...people worshipped Him. And...Jesus claims equality with the Father, and the Holy Spirit.*

    Yes as you stated...as God's Word states...there is One true God.
    Things only God can do and did do.

    Ye men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you as ye yourselves also know. (Acts 2:22)

    Yes, God did the works through a man approved of God, the man Jesus Christ.

    Give credit to whom credit is due. God works through men his wonders to perform.
    Yes, of course we need give credit to God for everything. And the man Jesus, did give credit to "our Father". *But we also need consider the whole of scripture realizing the Jesus is our Creator. ..and will be our judge. Both OT & NT are consistent in letting us know who Jesus is.

    "For a child is born to us, a son is given to us. The government will rest on his shoulders. And he will be called: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

    Isaiah 9:6
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

  7. #97
    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Mighty God, Everlasting Father

    Isaiah 9:6
    The Hebrew el is a generic term which in this case obviously does not refer to the Most High. The term actually refers to a mighty one, any mighty one. Even angels are referred to as el (Psalm 29:1)

  8. #98
    Silver Member 6days's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    Jesus is not omnipotent
    He has "all authority"...Matthew 28:18

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr

    (Jesus is not) omnipresent
    "Where 2 or 3...I am there" Matt. 18:20

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    (Jesus is not)omniscient.
    John 1:48-50 Jesus knew where Nathaniel was.

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    He does not know when he will return, but his God knows.
    Quite correct...the son of man ...the human Jesus did not know. MATT 24:36

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    Jesus is not called God.
    "Of the Son he says, "Thy throne oh God..."" Heb. 1:8

    Or
    " and the Word was God"

    Jesus is also called 'Lord'. Matt. 22:43-45

    Jesus is also called 'King of kings and Lord of lords'. Rev. 19:16


    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    Now Jesus Christ is Lord made so by his God. Who? His God.
    What verse says Jesus was made? Or that God appointed anyone other than the one true God as Lord?

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    Kings in the OT were worshipped also.
    Some people today worship Buddah... or their car. But who alone is worthy to be worshipped.

    Angels worship Jesus .."Let all the angels of God worship Him" Heb. 1:6
    And...

    "At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, of those who are in Heaven, and those on earth, and under the earth."
    Phil. 2:10

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    Jeus NEVER claimed to be equal to his father.
    John 14:23
    John 10:30

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    He said his Father is greater THAN ALL.
    Yes...as the Son of man, that makes perfect sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr
    Jesus Christ tells that his FATHER is the ONLY true God.*
    Yes...as the Son of man, that makes perfect sense. But also we need to see what Jesus says about who the Son of God is. We need look at the full context of all scripture including prophecy.

    Ex. "A child is born to us, a son is given to us. The government will rest on his shoulders. And he will be called: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." ISAIAH 9:6
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

  9. #99
    Over 1500 post club Krsto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    That He is human but not divine. That is the problem
    No, the problem is the assumption that deity implies a separate person of God as opposed to a separate human person having divine attributes given to him by God the Father.

    Many of the non-trins on this board are not very good communicators. They will say they don't believe in the deity of Christ when in fact they do or they will say they don't believe "Jesus is God" when in fact they agree with the biblical definition of the Greek word used for God (theos) and the Hebrew word used for God (el) that happens to be translated as "God" with a capital G in any place it refers to Christ.

    What non-trins do not agree with is how "Jesus is God" reads in English since the English word "God" does not allow for the biblical use of a human representative of God. That's why people on both sides of the debate read Jesus' statement saying "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" and don't know what to do with it. Trinitarians ignore that the word used there is the same theos used elsewhere and translated as "God" with a capital G. They bring up that that's a JW argument and if it's a JW argument it can't have any validity. They never look at the argument on its own merit and realize that theos can and is used for human representatives of God and so any verse that says Jesus is theos doesn't prove he is God in the English sense of the word. Non-trins on the other hand don't know how to set up the argument so it makes any sense and only time will tell if I'm guilty of the same
    Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007

    Totally depraved doctrine.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Courtesy of Desert Reign

  10. #100
    Over 1500 post club Krsto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post

    Jesus is not called God.
    And here's Exhibit A for someone with poor communication skills.

    What's a trinitarian going to do every time he sees this? He's going to think of the 2 or 3 scriptures that say, "Jesus is God."

    No explanation is ever given by so many on this board what is meant by the statement, "Jesus is not God."

    We are all like ships passing in the night.
    Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007

    Totally depraved doctrine.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Courtesy of Desert Reign

  11. #101
    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    Saved, or may be saved.
    BigBoof1959, Bright Raven, Caino, Cruciform, ebenz47037, Nick M, OCTOBER23, Robert Pate, S0ZO, steko, tomlapalm, Totton Linnet

    Not saved.
    aikido7, jamie, keypurr, meshak, oatmeal, Omniskeptical, Pierac, Under Pressure
    Thanks for your opinion.

    God's word states otherwise.

    Romans 10:9-10 gives us the two conditions to receive salvation.

    I have met both, have you?
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  12. #102
    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Under Pressure View Post
    Proposing a vote on this issue is stupid. The reality of "god" is not a popularity contest.
    Good point, but we do have an idea of a count of who believes error and who believes the truth
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  13. #103
    Over 1500 post club Krsto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    Thanks for your opinion.

    God's word states otherwise.

    Romans 10:9-10 gives us the two conditions to receive salvation.

    I have met both, have you?
    Ktoyou is just giving God a break from the arduous task of having to make all these difficult judgments so that God can be freed up for more important work. She'll probably end up serving at his right hand for her meritorious service, don't you think?
    Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007

    Totally depraved doctrine.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Courtesy of Desert Reign

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Matthew 17:5 King James Version (KJV)

    5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
    A better perspective on your verse.... God's chosen one!

    NASB Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

    Who's chosen one? That's right God's chosen one... not God himself!!!

    Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

    Moses was a Chosen one too....

    Psa 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood in the breach before Him, To turn away His wrath from destroying them.

    Luk 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One."

    You have much to learn about Hebrew culture as you wander about scripture in your American view bermuda shorts wearing white socks and sandals with your dark scriptural blinding sunglasses.

    If your God's chosen one.... then you can't be God!

    Jesus has a God and he tells you how important you know this fact!!! It's eternal life my friend!!!


    Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

    You better get a clue that you may know what Jesus was talking about in John 17:3. Your posting like a biblical tourist! Get rid of the socks!

    Paul
    From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
    From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
    From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
    Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

    ~ Ancient Prayer

  15. #105
    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Mighty God, Everlasting Father
    Is Jesus your father? When Jesus said, "Our Father which art in heaven" are you thinking he was praying to himself as the mighty God?

    The Hebrew el is a generic term which in this case obviously does not refer to the Most High. The term actually refers to a mighty one, any mighty one. Even angels are referred to as el (Psalm 29:1)

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