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View Poll Results: Does Almighty God have FOREKNOWLEDGE of all?

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Thread: Does Almighty God have FOREKNOWLEDGE of All?

  1. #16
    Patron Saint of SMACK Delmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Yes.

    Psalm 139:13-16New King James Version (NKJV)

    13 For You formed my inward parts;
    You covered me in my mother’s womb.
    14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    Marvelous are Your works,
    And that my soul knows very well.
    15 My frame was not hidden from You,
    When I was made in secret,
    And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
    16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
    And in Your book they all were written,
    The days fashioned for me,
    When as yet there were none of them.
    Open view Christians agree that He knows us on a cellular level, could see our potential by glancing at our DNA before our bodies took shape, etc

  2. #17
    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    I'm honestly not able to decide on this issue. I see the Scriptures and logical arguments from both sides (good ones). Both have merit, but some of it on both sides smells faintly of going beyond Scripture and speculating without calling it such. That's where my gut tells me to back off.

    In any case - and call me a simpleton if you like - I take comfort in the fact that as far as I can tell, God doesn't require me to have an opinion on this either way. No matter which view is true, "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" and the first 1/2 of Job 13:15.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by journey View Post
    Does Almighty God have FOREKNOWLEDGE of all? Please feel free to offer Scripture and discussion.
    Our relationship is with Jesus and He does not know everything.

    Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
    Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

  4. #19
    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    Our relationship is with Jesus and He does not know everything.

    Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
    Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    LA
    John 2:24-25 New International Version (NIV)

    24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

  5. #20
    LIFETIME MEMBER
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    John 2:24-25 New International Version (NIV)

    24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.
    He knew what is in man because he is one of them and had to overcome the things of man in Himself.



    Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

    Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
    Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
    Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
    Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
    Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

  6. #21
    Veteran vfirestormv's Avatar
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    I believe, Yes...

    Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


    Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
    Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
    Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
    Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:


    Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
    Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

    Act_2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:


    1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
    The greatest hope for America:
    2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  7. #22
    Veteran vfirestormv's Avatar
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    Jesus also not only knew that Peter would deny Him but also how many times he would deny Him and exactly when he would deny Him.

    Joh 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The (rooster) shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
    The greatest hope for America:
    2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  8. #23
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    God does not know that which does not exist, and as such cannot be known.
    He even knows 'possibilities' such that Open Theists are inconsistent on even this. See Delmar for instance:
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
    Open view Christians agree that He knows us on a cellular level, could see our potential by glancing at our DNA before our bodies took shape, etc
    Many Open Theists 'agree' He would know such things that do not exist but in potentiality, that He knows even that which doesn't exist, thus Open Theists need to keep working on a better definition. The one above is not exacting enough to be an Open Theist paradigm. It is rather an inaccurate annecdote and sentiment.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  9. #24
    Silver Member Totton Linnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    He knew what is in man because he is one of them and had to overcome the things of man in Himself.



    Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

    Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
    Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
    Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
    Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
    Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
    You think then that Christ had sin in His members....
    One lavished upon in the Beloved
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  10. #25
    LIFETIME MEMBER Desert Reign's Avatar
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    It's simple.
    Jesus is and was the perfect representation of God. By perfect we mean that everything that we need to know and can know about God is found in Jesus.

    Jesus did not know quite a few things. Who touched me? He also knew a lot of things that you would not expect an ordinary man to know. But it remains that he did not know a lot of things.

    Since Jesus is God's perfect representation, then knowing everything cannot be a necessary attribute of God.

    And this is only a natural conclusion because perfection is not found in how much you know but in how much you love and in how much you are righteous. The Bible says that Jesus was made perfect through what he suffered, not through how much he knew. This kind of attribute is just a projection of man's power hungry tendencies. We want God to be like us rather than ourselves to be like him. If we really strove to be like him, believing him to be all knowledgeable, then we would be busy trying to get as much crammed into our poor brains as possible. But that will not make us good will it? Neither does it make God good.
    Total Misanthropy.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
    (The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

    RevTestament: It doesn't matter to me too much that the "New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew.
    Dialogos: Calvin, as a sinner, probably got some things wrong.
    Brandplucked: I'm shocked that other people disagree with me.

  11. #26
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Reign View Post
    It's simple.
    Jesus is and was the perfect representation of God. By perfect we mean that everything that we need to know and can know about God is found in Jesus.

    Jesus did not know quite a few things. Who touched me? He also knew a lot of things that you would not expect an ordinary man to know. But it remains that he did not know a lot of things.

    Since Jesus is God's perfect representation, then knowing everything cannot be a necessary attribute of God.

    And this is only a natural conclusion because perfection is not found in how much you know but in how much you love and in how much you are righteous. The Bible says that Jesus was made perfect through what he suffered, not through how much he knew. This kind of attribute is just a projection of man's power hungry tendencies. We want God to be like us rather than ourselves to be like him. If we really strove to be like him, believing him to be all knowledgeable, then we would be busy trying to get as much crammed into our poor brains as possible. But that will not make us good will it? Neither does it make God good.
    Simplistic, not simple.

    DR proposition 1) Christ didn't know everything (true or false?) I'd say false, but then again some Open Theists think God didn't know where Adam was when He asked "Where are you?" - Such is an 'assumption', DR. Such is simplistic, but not simple
    DR proposition 2) Jesus didn't know who touched Him (true false?) Again, a DR assumption. "Whose turn is it?" might not mean at all that I don't know whose turn it actually is. A question in no way by any necessity, necessitates let alone even implies, a lack of cognition. Such is a HUGE Open Theist supposition. I reject it outright because it is literally impossible to defend it from any text. We all know that questions do not at all imply lack of cognition. They "may" at times but ONLY IF the text says afterwards "I didn't know." Otherwise, you should not guess as to my or any other's cognition.
    DR proposition 3) Jesus is the perfect representation of God (true false?) Lorenzo Snow (LDS) said "As man is, God was. As God is, man may become." Jesus, in the flesh was ALSO a representative of man with man's infirmities BUT was always God. We must necessarily be careful not to overdraw extrapolations of logical points when considering such. We should not, however, contradict scriptures. Lorenzo Snow was wrong.

    DR's logical therefore proof :. "God doesn't know all things." (true or false?) Patently and demonstrably false as a proof statement,
    (Lon's) therefore:. simplistic, rather than 'simple.'
    Last edited by Lon; January 9th, 2015 at 08:16 PM.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  12. #27
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    Is there anything God does not know?

  13. #28
    TOL Legend patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Is there anything God does not know?
    finally, your real picture ! for the OP ? like we know what God knows ? i think God knows anything God wants to know. mostly the bigger picture i imagine. God Works All Things Towards Good. even when we don't see it. as far as God knowing the exact moment i will fart ? not so much, maybe. just sayin' -

  14. #29
    TOL Legend patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The question is how does God know? William Ames (1576-1655) was one of the foremost of Reformed thinkers, often known as "the Learned Doctor Ames" because of his great intellectual stature among Puritans, said the following:

    "Thereis properly only one act of the will in God because in Him all things are simultaneous and there is nothing before or after. So there is only decree about the end and means, but for the manner of understanding we say that, so far as intention is concerned, God wills the end before the means" [emphasis mine](William Ames, The Marrow of Theology, translation and introduction by John, Dystra, Eudsen, [Boston: The Pilgrim Press, 1968], 153-154).

    John Wesley adds to this thought in the following way:

    "The sum of all is this: the almighty, all-wise God sees and knows, from everlasting to everlasting, all that is, that was, and that is to come, through one eternal now. With him nothing is either past or future, but all things equally present. He has, therefore, if we speak according to the truth of things, no foreknowledge, no afterknowledge. This would be ill consistent with the Apostle’s words, 'With him is no variableness or shadow of turning;' and with the account he gives of himself by the Prophet, 'I the Lord change not'...Not that God has any need of counsel, of purpose, or of planning his work beforehand. Far be it from us to impute these to the Most High; to measure him by ourselves! It is merely in compassion to us that he speaks thus of himself, as foreknowing the things in heaven or earth, and as predestinating or fore-ordaining them. But can we possibly imagine that these expressions are to be taken literally?" [emphasis mine] (John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, 1771, Second Series, "On Predestination," Sermon #58; Christian Classics Ethereal Library).
    without even reading or hearing any of the above mentioned "mental giants", i came to alot of the same conclusions on my own. except the part where i go out and start a church or a following. perhaps, at that time in history those were different ideas to many, but they certainly aren't NEW and uniquely original thoughts. Jesus Christ and The Apostles, especially Paul say it best. and the patriarchs and prophets, of course. when it help's a person's understanding it's great. otherwise, it can be misleading. i have stated many times that Time is meaningless to God. man measures time. am i a genius ? i promise, i thought that before i heard anyone say it. many will disagree with the time thing. i also personally think, pre-destination of EVERY DETAIL is an insult to God. and God's greatest creation. US. God said it, not me -

  15. #30
    Over 2000 post club journey's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    finally, your real picture ! for the OP ? like we know what God knows ? i think God knows anything God wants to know. mostly the bigger picture i imagine. God Works All Things Towards Good. even when we don't see it. as far as God knowing the exact moment i will fart ? not so much, maybe. just sayin' -
    This has been reported and is not appreciated at all. I hope that you get some time off to think about this.
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