ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use more strength; But wisdom brings success.
Reputation:
April 4th, 2012, 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife
Wouldent it be better to encourage marriage where one can not contain themselves as is outlined in the bible? Rather than encourage abstinace where you know it will fail for certian individuals?
For teens? No. I think marrying before you're ready for marriage is more harmful than fornication. The vast majority of teens who marry as a means of dealing with sexual desire are going to have hellish marriages, for as long as those marriages last. Which won't be long in most cases.
Consider that you're suggesting a teenager or young person who can't control their sexual desires is going to somehow be able to have a marriage. Marriage is not simply the formal recognition of two monogamous sex partners.
For teens? No. I think marrying before you're ready for marriage is more harmful than fornication. The vast majority of teens who marry as a means of dealing with sexual desire are going to have hellish marriages, for as long as those marriages last. Which won't be long in most cases.
Consider that you're suggesting a teenager or young person who can't control their sexual desires is going to somehow be able to have a marriage. Marriage is not simply the formal recognition of two monogamous sex partners.
So how do we deal with the fact that the bible says if one can not contain then they should marry and in fact people got married in their VERY early teens back in bible times. Would you at least agree that once the person is 18 and they can not contain themselves that marriage would be a serious option on the table that is supported and helped along instead of trying to smack their hands like children?
I can get on board with not allowing 13 year olds to marry but 18 .... or even 17 depending on when their birthday falls and where they are in high school I think would be appropriate.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use more strength; But wisdom brings success.
Reputation:
April 4th, 2012, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife
So how do we deal with the fact that the bible says if one can not contain then they should marry and in fact people got married in their VERY early teens back in bible times. Would you at least agree that once the person is 18 and they can not contain themselves that marriage would be a serious option on the table that is supported and helped along instead of trying to smack their hands like children?
I can get on board with not allowing 13 year olds to marry but 18 .... or even 17 depending on when their birthday falls and where they are in high school I think would be appropriate.
Show me someone who's such a slave to their sexual desires and I'll show you someone who's going to cheat and destroy that marriage you insist on their having.
Why the continued insistence that people can't control their sexual desires, to the point that you're upset the church isn't doing something about it? People can control their sexual desires. Those who can't in the way you imply should probably be locked or something, certainly not married.
What is Paul really talking about here?
1 Corinthians 7:1-9 7 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. 8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Nowhere in this does it suggest that people are utterly incapable of walking down the street without jumping one another's bones on top of the nearest horizontal surface. You insist young people be encouraged to marry because they're incapable of walking down the street.
Paul, meanwhile, recognizes that some people aren't especially distracted by sex and better serve God not by marrying but by focusing entirely on Him. As he recognizes some have sexual desires that would be a distraction to that kind of service and so should chose the other kind of service to God, marriage. Both things serve God. Pick the job you're better suited for.
Paul liked his job. He would rather you have his job, too. But if that's not what you're built for, there's this other job that's awesome, too. In the Body of Christ there are many members, after all.
You assume every young person is incapable of controlling themselves and want to shoehorn them into marriage, something the vast majority of them actually are incapable of and won't be until they mature. Assuming that's the job for them in the first place.
Show me someone who's such a slave to their sexual desires and I'll show you someone who's going to cheat and destroy that marriage you insist on their having.
Why the continued insistence that people can't control their sexual desires, to the point that you're upset the church isn't doing something about it? People can control their sexual desires. Those who can't in the way you imply should probably be locked or something, certainly not married.
What is Paul really talking about here?
1 Corinthians 7:1-9 7 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. 8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Nowhere in this does it suggest that people are utterly incapable of walking down the street without jumping one another's bones on top of the nearest horizontal surface. You insist young people be encouraged to marry because they're incapable of walking down the street.
Paul, meanwhile, recognizes that some people aren't especially distracted by sex and better serve God not by marrying but by focusing entirely on Him. As he recognizes some have sexual desires that would be a distraction to that kind of service and so should chose the other kind of service to God, marriage. Both things serve God. Pick the job you're better suited for.
Paul liked his job. He would rather you have his job, too. But if that's not what you're built for, there's this other job that's awesome, too. In the Body of Christ there are many members, after all.
You assume every young person is incapable of controlling themselves and want to shoehorn them into marriage, something the vast majority of them actually are incapable of and won't be until they mature. Assuming that's the job for them in the first place.
Thats not what im saying, im saying if a specific individual can not contain themsleves and make that known and they happen to be young the church should facilitate marriage. I never said or implyed that this should apply to everyone but the church keeps this option brushed under the rug and forces young people that struggle with a burning passion to go out into the secular social forums to find someone becuase its not talked about nor facilitated in the church, everyone wants to focus on what Paul did but even as you said we are not all built that way. The church needs to regognize that and fully facilitate both options not just hyper focus on one and only bring the other one up if the young person knows all the theology on their own and only behind closed doors with no real solution.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use more strength; But wisdom brings success.
Reputation:
April 4th, 2012, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife
Thats not what im saying, im saying if a specific individual can not contain themsleves and make that known and they happen to be young the church should facilitate marriage.
We call those people rapists. We don't confine their passions to marriage but to prison.
(In point of fact, we should confine them to the grave. But that's another discussion. And, yeah, I was being facetious, I know.)
Stop thinking of marriage as nothing more than a safe place to put sex. It most certainly is that (the only place, in fact) but it's what marriage actually is that makes it the place for sex.
Get some that basic, modicum, minimum grasp of self control that God and society expect of you, and of which you are perfectly capable. If you don't have that you're going to be crap in a marriage anyway. You'll end up worse off (and do more harm) than if you just fornicated.
Once you have this most basic, simple thing (the thing, I'll point out, that churches do typically devote effort to encouraging)...then consider how you will best serve God, whether celibate or married.
We call those people rapists. We don't confine their passions to marriage but to prison.
(In point of fact, we should confine them to the grave. But that's another discussion.)
Stop thinking of marriage as nothing more than a safe place to put sex. It most certainly is that (the only place, in fact) but it's what marriage actually is that makes it the place for sex.
Get some that basic, modicum, minimum grasp of self control that God and society expect of you, and of which you are perfectly capable. If you don't have that you're going to crap in a marriage anyway. You'll end up worse off (and do more harm) than if you just fornicated.
Once you have this most basic, simple thing...then consider how you will best serve God, whether celibate or married.
oh ok ......... it would be nice if you could be ALOT more polite, I realize this is an internet forum so you have the advantage of anonymity but would you seriously say that at a family reunion in conversation?
So to clarify this post - you beleive that people that get married to quench their burning passion are rapists?
Slogan/motto:
I am critical and I am o.k. with that.
Reputation:
April 4th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife
oh ok ......... it would be nice if you could be ALOT more polite, I realize this is an internet forum so you have the advantage of anonymity but would you seriously say that at a family reunion in conversation?
So to clarify this post - you beleive that people that get married to quench their burning passion are rapists?
I believe the point was if someone who cannot control their sexual desires and makes this known, through actions or otherwise, that person could be seen as a sexual deviant.
I believe the point was if someone who cannot control their sexual desires and makes this known, through actions or otherwise, that person could be seen as a sexual deviant.
I guess however that is not really biblical and its why people leave the church and go to the secular forums to find a mate becasue the church is harsh and judgemental. Even though the bible says right there if one can not contain they should marry, this is another example of the church cherry picking what scripture to emphisize and its usually scriptures that are burdensome which is why people tire of church.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use more strength; But wisdom brings success.
Reputation:
April 4th, 2012, 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife
I guess however that is not really biblical and its why people leave the church and go to the secular forums to find a mate becasue the church is harsh and judgemental. Even though the bible says right there if one can not contain they should marry, this is another example of the church cherry picking what scripture to emphisize and its usually scriptures that are burdensome which is why people tire of church.
I repent of wasting my time with you and helping you justify yourself.
Hey highlife thanks for reporting MaryContrary's post.
I was looking for a Post of the Day and that might fit the bill.
Thank you, I created this thread because I had a little conflict with my pastor in real life and I came to the conclusion that marriage was better than sleeping around, however even once I reached that conclusion I found that alot of churchs still dont even support marriage if the individual in question is below a certian age so how is that fair to the young people in teh congregation. They say sex is within marriage but then say your too young to get married? Whats up with that, no wonder we have so many young people leaving the church and sleeping around .... because the church is not truely encouraging marriage, God cant be too happy about that.
Sorry, just be straight with me, I dont want to get involved with dramas with people who have 1000's of posts. If im the rouge opinion here then I can respectfully bow out.
Slogan/motto:
“Theist and atheist: The fight between them is as to whether God shall be called God or shall have some other name” S.B.
Reputation:
April 4th, 2012, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife
Thank you, I created this thread because I had a little conflict with my pastor in real life and I came to the conclusion that marriage was better than sleeping around
Did your pastor disagree that marriage is better than sleeping around?
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife
however even once I reached that conclusion I found that alot of churchs still dont even support marriage if the individual in question is below a certian age so how is that fair to the young people in teh congregation.
What age is too young for marriage in your opinion? There is another thread where this was discussed in greater detail.
God is not discoverable or demonstrable by purely scientific means, unfortunately for the scientifically minded. But that really proves nothing. It simply means that the wrong instruments are being used for the job. ~John Bertram Phillips
Linear Mode
