ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
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With Oatmeal in my bowl, is Jesus in your soul?
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Is God outside of time? -
December 6th, 2010, 03:06 PM
Tell me how or why you think God is or is not outside of time or not and use scripture and let me know if this question matters or not in our pursuit in following Jesus or not?
Tell me how or why you think God is or is not outside of time or not and use scripture and let me know if this question matters or not in our pursuit in following Jesus or not?
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"Love separates for the sake of union." - Rumi
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December 6th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyArnold
Tell me how or why you think God is or is not outside of time or not and use scripture and let me know if this question matters or not in our pursuit in following Jesus or not?
It would appear that it is both.
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8
"The concepts which now prove to be fundamental to our understanding of nature...seem to my mind to be structures of pure thought...the unvierse begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine." - Sir James Jeans
Einstein showed that time is just another dimension like height , depth or width. You also asked if God is everywhere. This shows how God can be transcendent and immanent.
Yes, the following video is from a silly movie but this segment is correct and explains the idea. Our universe is like a shadow compared to God's reality. If you prefer Sagan , that video is below it.
In John 8:58 Jesus says, "before Abraham was, I Am". In other words past , present and future are the same to God, as they are in 4 dimensional space-time. Considering that physicists now claim that there are many more dimensions ( maybe even 15!) it seems unlikely that God has fewer dimensions than his creation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyTxCsIXE4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KT4...eature=related
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
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December 6th, 2010, 04:16 PM
if god isn't outside of time...would that mean that he's bound by the same kind of physics that we are? and if god is NOT bound by the same kind of physics we are...wouldn't that necessarily mean he's outside of time?
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"Love separates for the sake of union." - Rumi
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December 6th, 2010, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic_gnostic
Einstein showed that time is just another dimension like height , depth or width. You also asked if God is everywhere. This shows how God can be transcendent and immanent.
I don't see how it shows that God is transcendent and immanent. But if you believe that God is transcendent, then this implies that he transcends space and time because the space-time continuum are part of the physical universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic_gnostic
Considering that physicists now claim that there are many more dimensions ( maybe even 15!) it seems unlikely that God has fewer dimensions than his creation.
In what sense does God have dimensions?
(By the way, "string theory" or "m theory" have never been experimentally validated.)
"The concepts which now prove to be fundamental to our understanding of nature...seem to my mind to be structures of pure thought...the unvierse begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine." - Sir James Jeans
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"Love separates for the sake of union." - Rumi
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December 6th, 2010, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JWStipple
no...god doesn't have dimensions...he has dementia-ns, the kind of dementia only a god could have.
sheesh...you say so yourself: "The One who became many is becoming one again."
sounds like god to me. but probably not to the christians.
What does one have to do with the other? And why the hissy fit?
"The concepts which now prove to be fundamental to our understanding of nature...seem to my mind to be structures of pure thought...the unvierse begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine." - Sir James Jeans
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Hands that help are holier than lips that pray.
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December 6th, 2010, 04:28 PM
Have you ever read The Sabbath by Heschel? He talks briefly about God and time. I find time a difficult concept to grasp. I tend to lean toward God being inside of time but I am not settled in that view.
I believe that the Universe is one being, all its parts are different expressions of the same energy,
and they are all in communication with each other, therefore parts of one organic whole.
This whole is in all its parts so beautiful, and is felt by me to be so intensely in earnest, that I am compelled to love it and to think of it as divine
- Robinson Jeffers
"I've also seen no proof of Einstein's theory/hypothesis that time is a dimension."
Lighthouse
Do some googling. Relativity is established.*You want to debate if relativity is valid? Are you against ALL science, even when it can glorify God? Space-time means that time is a dimension just as the other three space dimensions are dimensions. Or are you so hypnotized by the image of God as a old man with a white beard? I find your conception of God an insult to God.
* Space -time and the fact that it can be curved was demonstrated by a solar eclipse long ago and Relativity is not doubted by any serious physicist.
Is God "inside" time? He is under its power? He does not transcend time? That is like saying that he is subject to the laws of width and length. Considering that God created the physical universe ( height, depth etc) that seems absurd to me.
I agree with Augustine that God created time. Just as he created height, depth and width. http://mscourses.homestead.com/files...GodandTime.htm
Last edited by agnostic_gnostic; December 6th, 2010 at 06:29 PM.
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"Love separates for the sake of union." - Rumi
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December 6th, 2010, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
I I've also seen no proof of Einstein's theory/hypothesis that time is a dimension.
Quote:
In physics, spacetime (or space–time; or space/time) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space being three-dimensional and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions. According to certain Euclidean space perceptions, the universe has three dimensions of space and one dimension of time.
"The concepts which now prove to be fundamental to our understanding of nature...seem to my mind to be structures of pure thought...the unvierse begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine." - Sir James Jeans
How does the math of higher dimensions show how God can be transcendent and immanent? A crude analogy, we as 3 dimensional beings ( for the moment lets forget about time) transcend 2 dimensional space. However, we also exist in 2 dimensional space. We have right-left and we transcend that 2 dimensional space because we also have up-down.
When we look at a 2 dimensional object we think of it as a shadow, something without substance ( Being). In the same way God ( the source of Being) must look at us as objects as substantial as a character in a dream.
Hell is to be alienated from that ground of Being. C.S Lewis wrote," ashamed of being a mortal...being , how shall I say it?...insufficient...as shy as a dream would feel, if it were seen walking about in the waking world."
"May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;"
Ephesians 3:18
I tend to lean toward God being inside of time but I am not settled in that view.
Was that intended as a pun?
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic_gnostic
Do some googling. Relativity is established.*You want to debate if relativity is valid? Are you against ALL science, even when it can glorify God? Space-time means that time is a dimension just as the other three space dimensions are dimensions. Or are you so hypnotized by the image of God as a old man with a white beard? I find your conception of God an insult to God.
* Space -time and the fact that it can be curved was demonstrated by a solar eclipse long ago and Relativity is not doubted by any serious physicist.
Space being curved isn't an issue here. I don't deny that. Time, on the other hand, isn't physical. It's a concept. It is nothing more than the ever passing moment, which God experiences as a consequence of His existence. Time is subject to God because God is not outside of it.
There is no evidence that time is a dimension. I'm not denying that certain aspects of Einstein's theory of relativity are established, but they aren't all established.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic_gnostic
Is God "inside" time? He is under its power? He does not transcend time? That is like saying that he is subject to the laws of width and length. Considering that God created the physical universe ( height, depth etc) that seems absurd to me.
I agree with Augustine that God created time. Just as he created height, depth and width.
Yes, God created the physical world, but none of those things are actually physical. The three dimensions of H, W & L are byproducts of His creation, as His not being physical means they are not byproducts of His existence prior to creation. Time, however, being what it is, is a byproduct of His existence, as He experiences time [the passage thereof].
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian
In physics, spacetime (or space–time; or space/time) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space being three-dimensional and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions. According to certain Euclidean space perceptions, the universe has three dimensions of space and one dimension of time.
Is time a physical dimension of which one can be either inside our outside? I submit that it is not, and no evidence otherwise exists, let alone proof.
Is God outside of time? -
December 6th, 2010, 03:06 PM
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