Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
We have the example of the unforgiving servant who was forgiven of his unpaid debt, but then later had his debt reinstated because of his immoral conduct (Mat. 18:23-35). This parable clearly shows how the Lord can graciously pardon an individual and then later execute the punishment that they deserve.
We also see the example of the Apostle Judas who lost his salvation. Judas was a disciple of the Lord and therefore he left all to follow Jesus (Lk. 14:33). He picked up his cross (Lk. 14:27) and even loved Jesus more then his own family (Lk. 14:26). Judas was picked by Jesus specifically to cast out devils, heal, and preach (Mat. 10:1-27). Judas was a friend Jesus trusted (Ps. 41:9; Jn 13:18), so Judas kept the money (Jn. 12:6; Jn. 13:29). Jesus told Judas that He was shedding His blood for him (Lk. 22:14-20), and previously said that His name was written in the Lambs book of life (Lk. 10:20). Jesus even said that Judas was one of His sheep (Mat. 10:1-4, Mat. 10:16), who received His truth (Mat. 10:1-4, 8), who’s Father was God (Matt 10:1-4, 20), who even had a throne in Heaven upon which he would judge Israel (Mat. 19:28; Lk. 22:30). But then later we see that Judas became a devil (Jn. 6:70) and therefore it would have been better for him to have never been born (Mk. 14:21). He even began to steal money from the group (Jn. 12:6). Judas fell from his apostleship by his transgression (Acts 1:25) because He failed to do what Jesus picked him for. His name was blotted out of the book of life (Ex. 23:33; Rev. 3:5).
So we can see that the atonement does not automatically or unconditionally save anyone. Many of those for whom Christ died will ultimately perish for their sin because they choose to continue in their sin (Heb. 10:26-31) instead of sinning no more. Though Christ died for all, many are on the broad road (Mat. 7:13). It’s possible to deny the Lord that bought us and thereby fall into condemnation (2 Pet. 2:1).
The wrath of God is impartial (Ex. 32:33; Deut. 10:17; Rom. 2:9; 2 Cor. 10:6; Col. 3:25; 2 Pet. 1:17; 1 Jn. 3:15; Rev. 21:8; Rev. 22:15), so anyone who consciously or knowingly transgresses or revolts is under condemnation (Jn. 3:19; Rom. 1:18; Rom. 2:6-11; Heb. 10:26-31; 1 Jn. 3:8; 1 Jn. 3:15; 1 Jn. 3:20; 2 Jn. 1:9) because God must uphold and enforce His laws as long as He is loving and caring, as long as He hates sin because He’s benevolent.
But if backsliders repent (Lk. 13:3; James 5:19-20) and seek forgiveness (Mat. 6:12; 1 Jn. 1:9), they can be restored (Ps. 51:9; Jer. 3:22; 4:1; Lk. 15:20; Lk. 22:32; Rom. 11:23; James 5:19-20) unless they are apostates (Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:5; 2 Tim. 3:8; Titus 1:14-16), having grieved away the Spirit (Mat. 12:31-32; Eph. 4:30), having resisted all possible influence (Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Tim. 3:8).
- Jesse Morrell
"Where there is no moral knowledge or where there is no voluntary choice, the act is not sinful; it cannot be, for sin is the transgression of the law and transgression must be voluntary." A. W. Tozer
Last edited by JesseMorrell; June 2nd, 2008 at 08:50 AM.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
May 30th, 2008, 06:43 PM
Jesse,
Is someone who has died, had ALL of his sins blotted out, and resurrected unto
eternal life saved forever in your opinion?
Slogan/motto:
Those who are following Christ are not sinning. Those who are sinning are not following Christ.
Reputation:
May 30th, 2008, 06:52 PM
Yes, I can't image why Saints would ever want to sin in Heaven.
Besides, only those who stopped sinning in this life will be allowed into Heaven in the next life - Rev. 22:11
God absolutely will not allow sin into Heaven (Isa. 52:1; Mat. 7:21, Mat. 7:23, Mat. 22:11-14, Mat. 25:41; Lk. 13:27; 1 Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19:21; Heb. 12:14; Rev. 21:8, Rev. 22:11-15), since Heaven will be Heaven because there is no sin and consequently no misery there (Isa. 35:10; Isa. 51:3, Isa. 51:11, Isa. 52:1; Isa. 65:19, Isa. 65:25; Jer. 31:12; Rev. 7:17, Rev. 21:4).
Only the narrow road terminates on eternal or endless life (Mat. 7:14-15), so men absolutely must persevere unto the end of that road to reach that final destination, since all on the broad road end in destruction (Mat. 7:13).
Only those who keep God’s commandments will enter through the gates into the Heaven (Mat. 7:21; Mat. 19:17; Mat. 25:21, Mat. 25:23, Mat. 25: 46; Lk. 10:28; Heb. 12:14; Rev. 22:14), while all sinners will be left outside the Holy City (Matt. 7:23; Lk. 13:27; Rev. 22:15).
- Jesse Morrell
"Where there is no moral knowledge or where there is no voluntary choice, the act is not sinful; it cannot be, for sin is the transgression of the law and transgression must be voluntary." A. W. Tozer
The Bible says that the Christian has been saved (initial salvation) and has conditional security (probation), and if he perseveres, will be finally saved (final salvation).
- Jesse Morrell
"Where there is no moral knowledge or where there is no voluntary choice, the act is not sinful; it cannot be, for sin is the transgression of the law and transgression must be voluntary." A. W. Tozer
We have the example of the unforgiving servant who was forgiven of his unpaid debt, but then later had his debt reinstated because of his immoral conduct (Mat. 18:23-35). This parable clearly shows how the Lord can graciously pardon an individual and then later execute the punishment that they deserve.
We also see the example of the Apostle Judas who lost his salvation. Judas was a disciple of the Lord and therefore he left all to follow Jesus (Lk. 14:33). He picked up his cross (Lk. 14:27) and even loved Jesus more then his own family (Lk. 14:26). Judas was picked by Jesus specifically to cast out devils, heal, and preach (Matt 10:1-27). Judas was a friend Jesus trusted (Ps. 41:9; Jn 13:18), so Judas kept the money (Jn. 12:6; 13:29). Jesus told Judas that He was shedding His blood for him (Lk. 22:14-20), and previously said that His name was written in the Lambs book of life (Lk. 10:20). Jesus even said that Judas was one of His sheep (Matt 10:1-4, 16), who received His truth (Mat. 10:1-4, 8), who’s Father was God (Matt 10:1-4, 20), who even had a throne in Heaven upon which he would judge Israel (Mat. 19:28; Lk. 22:30). But then later we see that Judas became a devil (Jn. 6:70) and therefore it would have been better for him to have never been born (Mk. 14:21). He even began to steal money from the group (Jn. 12:6). Judas fell from his apostleship by his transgression (Acts 1:25) because He failed to do what Jesus picked him for. His name was blotted out of the book of life (Ex. 23:33; Rev. 3:5).
So we can see that the atonement does not automatically or unconditionally save anyone. Many of those for whom Christ died will ultimately perish for their sin because they choose to continue in their sin (Heb. 10:26-31) instead of sinning no more. Though Christ died for all, many are on the broad road (Matt. 7:13). It’s possible to deny the Lord that bought us and thereby fall into condemnation (2 Pet. 2:1).
The wrath of God is impartial (Ex. 32:33; Deut. 10:17; Rom. 2:9; 2 Cor. 10:6; Col. 3:25; 2 Pet. 1:17; 1 Jn. 3:15; Rev. 21:8; 22:15), so anyone who consciously or knowingly transgresses or revolts is under condemnation (Jn. 3:19; Rom. 1:18; 2:6-11; Heb. 10:26-31; 1 Jn. 3:8; 3:15; 3:20; 2 Jn. 1:9) because God must uphold and enforce His laws as long as He is loving and caring, as long as He hates sin because He’s benevolent.
But if backsliders repent (Lk. 13:3; Jas. 5:19-20) and seek forgiveness (Matt. 6:12; 1 Jn. 1:9), they can be restored (Ps. 51:9; Jer. 3:22; 4:1; Lk. 15:20; 22:32; Rom. 11:23; Jas. 5:19-20) unless they are apostates (Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:5; 2 Tim. 3:8; Titus 1:14-16), having grieved away the Spirit (Mat. 12:31-32; Eph. 4:30), having resisted all possible influence (Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Tim. 3:8).
You went through all that, and all I have to do to show you are wrong is this:
John 3:16
"The Holy Spirit was the first dispensationalist"......John W
Slogan/motto:
Those who are following Christ are not sinning. Those who are sinning are not following Christ.
Reputation:
May 30th, 2008, 07:07 PM
In Jn. 3:16, "believeth" is of course conditional, but it is also (in the Greek) continual.
So it means that those who believe, and continue to believe, have eternal life.
Of course, without faith a person cannot be saved. So if a person turns from the faith, they are no longer saved. Since you cannot be saved without faith. Therefore Paul encouraged believers to continue in the faith - Acts 14:22, so that they could continue in the grace of God - Acts 13:43
If a person does not "continue in the faith", then they do not "continue in the grace of God".
- Jesse Morrell
"Where there is no moral knowledge or where there is no voluntary choice, the act is not sinful; it cannot be, for sin is the transgression of the law and transgression must be voluntary." A. W. Tozer
Slogan/motto:
Those who are following Christ are not sinning. Those who are sinning are not following Christ.
Reputation:
May 30th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Door,
Your continual accusations just prove that you neither have the Scriptures, nor the intelligence, to make an actual argument.
I suppose you could be considered entertaining to a degree, but mainly just annoying and counterproductive to edifying discussion.
Honestly, I haven't seen any Christ-like love in any of your posts. You are rather an accuser of the brethren, just like your father.
- Jesse Morrell
"Where there is no moral knowledge or where there is no voluntary choice, the act is not sinful; it cannot be, for sin is the transgression of the law and transgression must be voluntary." A. W. Tozer
Your continual accusations just prove that you neither have the Scriptures, nor the intelligence, to make an actual argument.
You have never responded to any proof that anyone provides, you worthless piece of garbage.
You are a liar, and possessed by a demon, and that is why you just keep throwing unrelated verses out of context ( a tactic of Satan), to keep everyone running down your rabbit trails. You have never made a single argument to dispute. You have zero biblical knowledge, and everyone but you knows it.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
May 30th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Jesse,
Is someone who has died, had ALL of his sins blotted out, and resurrected unto
eternal life saved forever in your opinion?
Col 2:10-13 KJV.
If you are risen with Christ, you CANNOT be condemned.
Case closed.
Slogan/motto:
Those who are following Christ are not sinning. Those who are sinning are not following Christ.
Reputation:
May 30th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Jesse,
Is someone who has died, had ALL of his sins blotted out, and resurrected unto
eternal life saved forever in your opinion?
If you missed my response to this, here it is again:
Yes, I can't image why Saints would ever want to sin in Heaven.
Besides, only those who stopped sinning in this life will be allowed into Heaven in the next life - Rev. 22:11
God absolutely will not allow sin into Heaven (Isa. 52:1; Mat. 7:21, Mat. 7:23, Mat. 22:11-14, Mat. 25:41; Lk. 13:27; 1 Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19:21; Heb. 12:14; Rev. 21:8, Rev. 22:11-15), since Heaven will be Heaven because there is no sin and consequently no misery there (Isa. 35:10; Isa. 51:3, Isa. 51:11, Isa. 52:1; Isa. 65:19, Isa. 65:25; Jer. 31:12; Rev. 7:17, Rev. 21:4).
Only the narrow road terminates on eternal or endless life (Mat. 7:14-15), so men absolutely must persevere unto the end of that road to reach that final destination, since all on the broad road end in destruction (Mat. 7:13).
Only those who keep God’s commandments will enter through the gates into the Heaven (Mat. 7:21; Mat. 19:17; Mat. 25:21, Mat. 25:23, Mat. 25: 46; Lk. 10:28; Heb. 12:14; Rev. 22:14), while all sinners will be left outside the Holy City (Mat. 7:23; Lk. 13:27; Rev. 22:15).
- Jesse Morrell
"Where there is no moral knowledge or where there is no voluntary choice, the act is not sinful; it cannot be, for sin is the transgression of the law and transgression must be voluntary." A. W. Tozer
Slogan/motto:
Those who are following Christ are not sinning. Those who are sinning are not following Christ.
Reputation:
May 30th, 2008, 07:34 PM
Quote:
you worthless piece of garbage.
Honestly, that is not the Holy Spirit, that is the spirit of the devil.
They will know you are Christians by your life Jesus said - Jn. 13:35
And the Apostle John said that we know we are the children of God, because we love the brethren - 1 Jn. 3:14-15
- Jesse Morrell
"Where there is no moral knowledge or where there is no voluntary choice, the act is not sinful; it cannot be, for sin is the transgression of the law and transgression must be voluntary." A. W. Tozer
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