Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Which specific arguments?
Theology Club: Repent and be Baptized...for the Remission of Sins
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Which specific arguments?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Jerry has picked out and isolated a few verses from John, while ignoring the context of the words of the Lord's entire earthly ministry.
Why? To defend "original MAD", as if there is such a thing.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are obviously unable to provide a verse or verses which prove that Noah was a believer BEFORE he found grace and was saved?
The Scriptures state in no uncertain terms that he became heir of the righteousness WHICH IS BY FAITH:
"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Heb.11:6).
Are you denying the truth that Noah became a heir of the righteousness which is by faith and faith alone
way 2 go
Well-known member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Perhaps STP will tell us what is found in this context that negates what the Lord Jesus told this woman about her salvation?:
"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).
And what STP say can be found in the context here which nullifies the idea that it was the Lord's words which gave life?:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
And of course STP will once again run and hide from this verse which declares that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith plus works:
"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).
Perhaps STP is so uninformed that he is not aware that "grace" and "works" are mutually excusive.
Evidently the teachers within the Pseudo-MAD community are not even aware of that fact.
Last edited:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Dispensations are not about 'salvation" but instead they are about " service."
The Greek word translated "dispensations" is often translated "stewardships." And once a person has been given a stewardship responsibility he becomes a steward to "serve" the Lord Jesus.
You might actually make an effort to learn the Biblical meaning of the Greek word translated "dispensation" or else you are going to continue to look clueless.
way 2 go
Well-known member
ah that's why you have only one dispensation
you don't understand the rule changes from one dispensation
to another
dispensation are administrations of how God has chosen to save people
oikonomia
administration (of a household or estate)specifically a (religious) “economy”
circumcision was a dispensation of salvation by heritage with faith
then the law was added and we have a new dispensation and so on.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
That's why I agree with Peter, regarding when the little flock receives grace. It's when their work is done.
1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
I know you will deny it until the grave, but you are flat wrong on this one.
Everyone that disagrees with you isn't uninformed. Perhaps they know more than you think.
What are the odds that you are right about everything?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I was referring to his salvation from the flood.
It is a picture. He was righteous and perfect in all his generations before he was saved from the flood.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
STP once again runs and hides from this verse which declares that the Jews who lived under the law were not saved by faith plus works:
"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).
Perhaps STP is so uninformed that he is not aware that "grace" and "works" are mutually exclusive.
Evidently the teachers within the Neo-MAD community are not even aware of that fact.
Last edited:
way 2 go
Well-known member
Whenever Jerry goes into his tired, predictable, old, obnoxious routine, just post page one of this link:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112768
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112768
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here is what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews of the Old Testament who lived under the law:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
That is certainly true in this dispensation, and according to the revelation of the mystery.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Paul used king David as an example of a Jew who lived under the law but yet he was saved apart from works:
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:1-8).
Jerry Shugart;434 [INDENT said:
Hi Jerry and here is the best translation of 1 Cor 6;11 !!
1 Cor 6:11 , " And some of you were these things . But you yourselves were WASHED , but you were Sanctified , BUT you were declared RIGHTEOUS in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the SPIRIT of our God .
#1 , Tell me WHO can wash away his SINS !!
#2 Who can wash away his sins and then be SANCTIFIED ?
#3 , Who can wash away his SINS and then declare himself RIGHTEOU !!
#4 So you are telling me that PAUL WASHED his SINS AWAY ??
#5 ,So how was PAUL SAVED IN Acts 9:6 Grace or by WATER ??
TELL ME , SO TELL ME ??
DAN P
Last edited:
way 2 go
Well-known member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).
It cannot be denied that Paul was to play some part in what Ananias told him. In his commentary on this verse Sir Robert Anderson writes:
"The Apostle records the words which Ananias addressed to him (Paul) at his conversion: 'Arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord'...His meaning is clear: 'Arise and be baptized, and turn away from your evil courses, calling on His name'" [emphasis mine] (Anderson, The Bible or the Church? [London: Pickering & Inglis, Second Edition], 230-231).
Last edited: