Announcement

Collapse

Theology Club Rules

For years many TOL members have asked for a special set of forums where theology could be discussed without the distraction of troublemakers and other distractions. To post in the Theology Club forums you must apply for membership (yes even TOL subscribers must apply). Almost all memberships will be approved however your membership will be revoked if you engage in anti-Christian rhetoric, repeated cases of red-herrings, quibbling over terms (equivocation), strawmen, false allegations, and other devices contrary to honest debate. In short the Theology Club is a place for honest and friendly discussion regarding theological topics.
See more
See less

The letter from Paul to the Romans

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Hence, they were grafted into the Olive Tree.



    Paul wanted to get them from the Olive Tree (which would be hewn down soon) into the Body.
    That would be double conversion.

    It is not true.

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

    Comment


    • #62
      So what happened that Arsenio was banned?

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
        That would be double conversion.

        It is not true.

        LA
        Is that anything like double jeopardy?
        Originally posted by Interplanner
        They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
        Originally posted by Interplanner
        You're too literal to get it.
        Originally posted by Interplanner
        The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
          You didn't know there were three of us that believe the Romans were not yet saved!

          sister heir the dilligent, STP the adequate, and Nick M the magnificent.
          Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
          Count me in
          Originally posted by glorydaz View Post


          And I think Paul knew his letter would change that. Which is why he wrote it the way he did as the letter went on.

          I'm in too!


          You had the believing (Christ is the promised kingdom Messiah) remnant of Israel.
          You have the unbelieving Israel.
          And you have the believing Gentiles that blessed or joined Israel as a proselyte (called Greeks).

          The believing Greeks would share in the blessings of GOD that the unbelieving Israel would NOT receive.
          Such as speaking in tongues, healing, raising the dead, casting out demons, etc. (unbelieving Israel got none of that, but believing Israel and Greeks did).
          Unbelieving Israel would have been provoked to jealousy to see Gentiles receiving the blessings that they did not.

          The tree of branches being broken off and 'wild' branches being grafted in is about the above Gentiles/Greeks.
          They should not boast about being grafted in with believing Israel, because they too can also be broken off.
          One can be cast out of Israel's kingdom.
          One cannot be broken off from the BOC.


          It's about Israel's earthly kingdom promises, not the BOC promises.

          We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
          They already know monsters exist.
          We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Tambora View Post
            It's about Israel's earthly kingdom promises, not the BOC promises.
            Question: Wouldn't Paul have wanted to see them continue on in the way they'd started? 1 Cor 7:17-18

            What I mean is, why was Paul the one writing to them as believers but not as members of the Body (as those who'd already believed the Kingdom Gospel)? Why not Peter, James or John? And if Paul did write to them as non-Body members, why are many opposed to the idea that Paul wrote Hebrews? I'm probably confused but not seeing the difference there.

            Thank you in advance!
            "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
            Terence Mc Lean

            [most will be very surprised]


            Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
            By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by heir View Post
              There's no scriptural evidence that Cornelius was circumcised. He was a blesser (Genesis 12:3 KJV),

              Hi and ead Rom 2:26 and Acts 10:1 and 2 and his un-circumcision is counted for CIRCUMCISION ??

              Cornelius was then CIRCUMCISED !!

              dan p

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                Hi and ead Rom 2:26 and Acts 10:1 and 2 and his un-circumcision is counted for CIRCUMCISION ??

                Cornelius was then CIRCUMCISED !!

                dan p
                But does it say he kept the righteous requirements of the law?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                  Hi and ead Rom 2:26 and Acts 10:1 and 2 and his un-circumcision is counted for CIRCUMCISION ??

                  Cornelius was then CIRCUMCISED !!

                  dan p
                  What about this?

                  Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

                  Rom. 5:6-8.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Tambora View Post
                    One can be cast out of Israel's kingdom.
                    Just as members of the Body can fail to inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9-10).

                    Just thinking out loud again here:

                    We know that we are warned to have no company with believers who are named as ones who indulge the flesh (1 Cor 5:11) for, if tolerated, such behaviors are contagious and destructive (1 Cor 15:33-34; 1 Cor 5:6; Gal 6:7; Eph 5:6; 2 Tim 2:16-17).

                    We also know that mere flesh and blood cannot inherit (1 Cor 15:50).

                    Taken together, the above *maybe* suggests that there's an inheritance reserved for members of the Body who will be renewed in incorruptible celestial/heavenly bodies like His (1 Cor 15:40), while other members of Christ will NOT inherit.

                    Will that failure to inherit be because they do not receive the same type of renewed body?

                    Will they not inherit because they indulged their fleshly bodies, instead of running the race in earnest?

                    Is that what even Paul feared was a distinct possibility even for himself?

                    If so, could all this shed light on Paul's cryptic remark about his deep desire to be numbered among the out-resurrection from among the dead (Phil 3:11)?

                    I admit I'm speculating here but I wonder if it's possible that there's a special, literal resurrection reserved only for those believers who have cleansed themselves of EVERYTHING that defiles the body (defiles His Body?), 2 Cor 7:1, whereas those believers who have not done so, will not receive such bodies and so will not inherit the Kingdom. Even though they be in forgiven and justified in Christ and eternally safe in Him, they will suffer shame and loss of what might have been, because of how they chose to walk here and now.

                    Maybe I'm way off...but I don't think so. Something nagging in the back of my mind tells me there's a very profound, very serious reason Paul issued these warnings to members of the Body, warnings which often go overlooked.
                    Last edited by musterion; May 26th, 2018, 10:34 AM.
                    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                    Terence Mc Lean

                    [most will be very surprised]


                    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Paul says we will all be revealed [in a new body?] when we stand before the Judgment Seat, to receive back what we did in the body [in His Body?], whether good or evil. But the guarantee to inheriting the Kingdom would be to,

                      "...deny ungodliness and worldly passions, living sensibly, upright and godly lives in the present age as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ..."

                      so that,

                      Col 3:4
                      "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                      Terence Mc Lean

                      [most will be very surprised]


                      Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                      By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Phillipians 3:10's "resurrection of the dead" refers to...

                        Philippians 3:21's "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

                        He is talking about focusing on living out its' conversation or manner of life, in the here and now.

                        Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

                        Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

                        Rom. 5:6-8

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X