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Grandstand discussion: "Ghost's Views on The Nature of Christ"

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  • #46
    It has been my experience that we all get 'judged' as teaching false doctrine, by those whom do not read and comprehend our words in context of what and how we would believe them in our own mind.

    Everyone on this board is guilty of it; at one time or other, in mho..IF they have posted on this board and been a part of a discussion at all.

    If we could all agree we ALL do this; this place would be a better place, in mho.


    We all get mad and leave, then we come back, LOL.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
      It has been my experience that we all get 'judged' as teaching false doctrine, by those whom do not read and comprehend our words in context of what and how we would believe them in our own mind.
      That's fine, but that's not what AMR is doing.

      Comment


      • #48
        :
        Originally posted by ghost View Post
        The post proves that AMR never mentioned Apolloinarianism, which is what he chose to accuse me of teaching in the one on one. The post you quoted discusses ONLY Keswick, Docetism or Calvinism.

        In the chatbox AMR chose to discuss Docetism READ THE POST, IDIOT. He has not done that. That is what we agreed to.

        What's amazing to me is how many of you people on TOL side with messengers instead of the truth. I find that very interesting considering that you all put such an emphasis on character, and then you prove yourselves to have none.
        Not only do I have character but, I am a character, and so are you.

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        • #49
          Evidence # 2 Here

          Docetism was an error with several variations concerning the nature of Christ. Generally, it taught that Jesus only appeared to have a body, that he was not really incarnate, (Greek, "dokeo" = "to seem"). This error developed out of the dualistic philosophy which viewed matter as inherently evil, that God could not be associated with matter, and that God, being perfect and infinite, could not suffer. Therefore, God as the word, could not have become flesh per John 1:1,14, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us.. " This denial of a true incarnation meant that Jesus did not truly suffer on the cross and that He did not rise from the dead.

          The basic principle of Docetism was refuted by the Apostle John in 1 John 4:2-3. "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world." Also, 2 John 7, "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."

          Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117) and Irenaeus (115-190), and Hippolatus (170-235) wrote against the error in the early part of the second century.

          Docetism was condemned at the Council of Chalcedon in 451.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ghost
            "The first known advocate of docetism was Cerinthus (circa 85 AD). He held that Jesus differed from other men only in that He was better and wiser than they, and that the divine Christ descended upon Him at the baptism and left Him at the cross."
            Based on what AMR says, it would appear that he is much closer to Docetism than I am.

            Originally posted by Ask Mr. Religion
            I am almost certain that you misunderstood gr. God, the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, in no way died on the Cross. Who did die? The Son of Man, Jesus, the man.

            Gr, are you claiming that the Son of God, who is God, died on the cross? I hope not.

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            • #51
              Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion
              I am almost certain that you misunderstood gr. God, the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, in no way died on the Cross. Who did die? The Son of Man, Jesus, the man.

              Gr, are you claiming that the Son of God, who is God, died on the cross? I hope not.

              I think we just entered the twilight zone! I cannot see any scriptural evidence for this kind of hair splitting. Again it's this bizarre two spirits doctrine rearing its head. It creates all kinds of weird conclusions.
              sigpic

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Inzl Kett View Post
                Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion
                I am almost certain that you misunderstood gr. God, the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, in no way died on the Cross. Who did die? The Son of Man, Jesus, the man.

                Gr, are you claiming that the Son of God, who is God, died on the cross? I hope not.

                I think we just entered the twilight zone! I cannot see any scriptural evidence for this kind of hair splitting. Again it's this bizarre two spirits doctrine rearing its head. It creates all kinds of weird conclusions.
                This is not "hair-splitting" but a delving into a study of Christology, which is sorely needed on this ~theological~ website.

                A denial of the humanity of Christ is as serious as denying His divinity.

                Jesus Christ died on the cross as the Son of Man; Mediator and representative of His people; bearing their sins in His BODY.

                He suffered a substitutional judgment for their sins and a substitional death in their stead, in His BODY.

                Then by His own power, He overcame death and resurrected from the grave, in His BODY.

                Meanwhile, God the Son remained in paradise with the thief who died on his cross the same day the Son of Man died on His cross.

                This is the gospel of Jesus Christ, people. We all should be eager to learn what we can about this miracle of grace, and be less eager to ignorantly impose our finite thinking upon the greatest work of God Almighty!

                I consider it very sinful for any to attempt to distract from learning about our Lord, who gave His human life for us humans, by silly whining, complaining, and throwing up smoke screens in order to avoid discussing vital biblical truths.

                Nang
                "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

                " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
                Gordon H. Clark

                "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
                Charles Spurgeon

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                • #53
                  Nang I am not denying the humanity of Christ--I am denying the two spirits doctrine. Jesus never had a corruptible mind like you or I. He didn't have two souls--no one does. This whole argument stems from a human attempt to understand the dichotomy of Jesus becoming flesh. It's like a baby trying to analyse a car. We won't have all the answers until we get to heaven.

                  I just don't accept the notion that anyone can have two souls or spirits. There is one caveat though, There is a second Spirit, though and I wasn't born with Him--the Holy Spirit. He came into my life when I accepted Jesus as my Savior.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Inzl Kett View Post
                    Nang I am not denying the humanity of Christ--I am denying the two spirits doctrine.
                    (I consider the spirit and the soul to be the same.)

                    Jesus Christ was filled with the Holy Spirit, plus He possessed a human spirit. Both were in union in His one Person.


                    Jesus never had a corruptible mind like you or I.
                    Agreed.


                    He didn't have two souls--no one does.
                    Perhaps this was the purpose of the incarnation? To reconcile and harmonize the human spirit with the Spirit of God?



                    I just don't accept the notion that anyone can have two souls or spirits. There is one caveat though, There is a second Spirit, though and I wasn't born with Him--the Holy Spirit. He came into my life when I accepted Jesus as my Savior.
                    Indeed. You remain one and the same person, but now your human spirit abides alongside with the Holy Spirit.

                    This is why a serious discussion of the nature of Jesus Christ is so important for us to grasp.

                    There are some wonderful truths for all of us to learn, if we can just get past ourselves and our prideful egos.

                    Nang
                    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

                    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
                    Gordon H. Clark

                    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
                    Charles Spurgeon

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Inzl Kett View Post
                      Nang I am not denying the humanity of Christ--I am denying the two spirits doctrine. Jesus never had a corruptible mind like you or I. He didn't have two souls--no one does. This whole argument stems from a human attempt to understand the dichotomy of Jesus becoming flesh. It's like a baby trying to analyse a car. We won't have all the answers until we get to heaven.

                      I just don't accept the notion that anyone can have two souls or spirits. There is one caveat though, There is a second Spirit, though and I wasn't born with Him--the Holy Spirit. He came into my life when I accepted Jesus as my Savior.
                      You are absolutely correct. They do teach that Jesus has two minds and two spirits.

                      Jesus is every bit as much a human man as the rest of us, but not double-minded or multiple spirits. They would have you believe that when Jesus died on the cross, the one spirit (as God the Son) departed the other spirit (as Son of Man) and only the man tasted death, not God. They have two distinct persons in one body, which logically leads to Jesus being two distinct persons in one body for all of eternity. The reason they worship a double-minded Jesus, is because they are double-minded themselves.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by andyc View Post
                        Well basically ghost is paranoid of AMR's intellect. And instead of actually defending himself against AMR's accusations by spending some time reading up on the the things he's being accused of and thinking about how his views may differ, he's simply denying the claims by attacking AMR's character and motives.
                        I partly agree with this. While the debate itself is not that compelling to me....one of the participants suffers from APD(antisocial personality disorder) and displays a classic textbook example of sociopathy.

                        So, it's interesting to observe the interactions from that standpoint.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Inzl Kett View Post
                          Godrulz,

                          Those verses do not prove the bizarre theology of Man and Jesus having two spirits.

                          The Two spirits idea is greek in origin from Plato. It doesn't come from the bible.
                          He has two natures, not two human or two divine spirits. He is fully God, fully man, one person with two natures, not two spirits and two minds (Schizo).
                          Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                          They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                          I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                          Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                          "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                          The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by ghost View Post
                            The post proves that AMR never mentioned Apolloinarianism, which is what he chose to accuse me of teaching in the one on one. The post you quoted discusses ONLY Keswick, Docetism or Calvinism.

                            In the chatbox AMR chose to discuss Docetism READ THE POST, IDIOT. He has not done that. That is what we agreed to.

                            What's amazing to me is how many of you people on TOL side with messengers instead of the truth. I find that very interesting considering that you all put such an emphasis on character, and then you prove yourselves to have none.
                            In the past, he has labeled you as Apo (which you admit is partially true). His Docetic accusation is newer and unfair in my mind.
                            Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                            They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                            I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                            Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                            "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                            The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                              He has two natures, not two human or two divine spirits. He is fully God, fully man, one person with two natures, not two spirits and two minds (Schizo).
                              Define your version of "nature"

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                                In the past, he has labeled you as Apo (which you admit is partially true). His Docetic accusation if newer and unfair in my mind.
                                Thank you William.

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