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  • #91
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart

    Earlier I challenged those who followed the teachings of Bob Enyart to a debate on the "Battle Royal Center Ring".I said:

    Bob Enyart teaches that the Jews were saved by "faith" plus "works".

    They call themselves "dispensationalists",but their teaching is the greatest assult on the dispensational method today!Over and over I am confronted by non-dispensationalists who say that they reject dispensationalism because dispensationalists teach that some men are saved in different ways than other men.

    Those who follow the ideas of Bob Enyart should take this opportunity to clear up whether or not the Jews were saved by "faith" plus "works".If they think that they can prove their teaching from the Scriptures then at least one of them should accept my challenge.

    This is a perfect subject for the "Battle Royale Center Ring".

    I made this challenge two weeks ago.If this challenge would have been accepted then the debate would have already been over!

    It seems as if those who follow the teaching of Bob Enyart want no part of this debate.Why not?


    In His grace,--Jerry
    Oh please....

    Jerry settle down dude don't be so full of yourself man.

    Your challenge is sort of narrow don't you think?

    Maybe if you can widen the scope of the challenge just a bit and come up with a easy to understand battle title I will get an combatant for you.

    Why you want to get mashed like a potato I don't know but hey if that's what you want I will try to help you in your quest.

    Oh and P.S.
    It isn't just "Bob Enyart followers" (whatever that means) that view this issue this way. Dispensationalism is a rather large movement.
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    • #92
      Knight,

      If you have studied the writers of other recognized teachers of "dispensationalism" you would know that the great majority of these teachers say that "works" are not necessary for salvation no matter what dispensation anyone lived in.

      And if you think that I will get mashed like a patato then you haven't been reading the thread where I am discussing this point with 1Way and Jeremy.

      Perhaps the discussion could be broadened to include the question as to whether or not "works" were ever required for salvation.And perhaps you could find someone who follows the teaching of Bob Enyart to debate this question.

      In His grace,--Jerry

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Jerry Shugart

        And if you think that I will get mashed like a patato then you haven't been reading the thread where I am discussing this point with 1Way and Jeremy.
        I have been following.... that's why I know your gonna get mashed.
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        • #94
          Originally posted by Knight

          I have been following.... that's why I know your gonna get mashed.
          I disagree. Jerry has resorted to Scripture and has some Biblically sound arguments that have not been dealt with anyone.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Freak

            I disagree. Jerry has resorted to Scripture and has some Biblically sound arguments that have not been dealt with anyone.
            If you say so.
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            • #96
              Originally posted by Knight

              If you say so.
              It's self evident.

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              • #97
                Knight,

                Earlier on a thread you started you said:
                Many people think "timeless" in regard to eternity means no time.

                Which is odd.... because if you think about it.... it actually means the opposite.... an infinite amount of time!
                If the eternal state is in regard to an "infinite" amount of time then it is obvious that the time is endless.

                Therefore,when John tells the Jewish believers that they already possess an "eternal" life in Christ Jesus then it is obvious that they possess a life in Christ Jesus that is endless!

                But Jeremy says that it can come to an end.But if it can come to an end,then that means that it was never "endless" to begin with!

                However,John makes it plain that the life that they enjoy in Christ Jesus is indeed "endless".

                And with that the teaching that the Jewish believers could lose their salvation and that they were saved by "works" comes tumbling down like a child's house of cards.

                In His grace,--Jerry

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Jerry Shugart

                  Knight,

                  Earlier on a thread you started you said:

                  If the eternal state is in regard to an "infinite" amount of time then it is obvious that the time is endless.

                  Therefore,when John tells the Jewish believers that they already possess an "eternal" life in Christ Jesus then it is obvious that they possess a life in Christ Jesus that is endless!

                  But Jeremy says that it can come to an end.But if it can come to an end,then that means that it was never "endless" to begin with!

                  However,John makes it plain that the life that they enjoy in Christ Jesus is indeed "endless".

                  And with that the teaching that the Jewish believers could lose their salvation and that they were saved by "works" comes tumbling down like a child's house of cards.

                  In His grace,--Jerry
                  Their fallacies have been exposed, again. Good job, Jerry

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                  • #99
                    It sounds like Jerry agrees with Knight: that "timeless" and "eternal" mean "infinite time" and not "no time" or "outside of time."

                    What Jerry posted reinforces what Knight posted. Jerry didn't post anything that is contrary to what Knight posted.
                    BRXI: Should Christians support the Death Penalty?

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                    • Originally posted by Turbo
                      What Jerry posted reinforces what Knight posted. Jerry didn't post anything that is contrary to what Knight posted.
                      Turbo,

                      What I am pointing out is the fact that Knight says that "eternal" mean "infinite time".

                      Therefore,if "eternal" means "infinite" time,then there is no end in a life that is described as being "eternal":

                      "And this is the record,that God hath given to us eternal life,and this life is in His Son"(1Jn.5:11).

                      Therefore,by Knight's definition this life which the Jewish believer possesses is a life in Christ Jesus that is "infinite".

                      But at the same time Jeremy (as well as those who follow the teaching of Bob Enyart) teach that this "infinite" life can come to an end.

                      In other words,they want it both ways.They say that "eternal" is in reference to "infinite" time in one instance but then they say that this "infinite" time can indeed end and therefore it is not "infinite time" at all.

                      In His grace,--Jerry

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart
                        But at the same time Jeremy (as well as those who follow the teaching of Bob Enyart) teach that this "infinite" life can come to an end.

                        In other words,they want it both ways.They say that "eternal" is in reference to "infinite" time in one instance but then they say that this "infinite" time can indeed end and therefore it is not "infinite time" at all.

                        In His grace,--Jerry
                        "Infinite life can come to an end"????

                        What are you talking about?
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                        • Knight, you took the words out of my mouth.

                          Originally posted by Jerry Shugart

                          But at the same time Jeremy (as well as those who follow the teaching of Bob Enyart) teach that this "infinite" life can come to an end.
                          Please show me where Jeremy stated this, and please show me where Bob Enyart taught it.
                          BRXI: Should Christians support the Death Penalty?

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                          • Originally posted by Turbo
                            Please show me where Jeremy stated this, and please show me where Bob Enyart taught it.
                            Turbo,

                            Here are the words of Jeremy in regard to the "eleven Apostles":

                            "The point here is, Christ is speaking to the 11 remaining Apostles, not some arbitrary group of people. Christ is warning them to remain faithful, or they will suffer the same fate as Judas."

                            From the thread on the "General Theolgy" forum titled "Does the 'Parable of the Vine and Branches' Teach Loss of Salvation?"(03-01-2004 06:03AM).

                            In His grace,--Jerry

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart

                              Turbo,

                              Here are the words of Jeremy in regard to the "eleven Apostles":

                              "The point here is, Christ is speaking to the 11 remaining Apostles, not some arbitrary group of people. Christ is warning them to remain faithful, or they will suffer the same fate as Judas."

                              From the thread on the "General Theolgy" forum titled "Does the 'Parable of the Vine and Branches' Teach Loss of Salvation?"(03-01-2004 06:03AM).

                              In His grace,--Jerry
                              Jerry I knew you where you were heading with this.

                              And it sort of boggles my mind the extent of your misunderstanding.

                              Losing eternal life in regard to salvation means to lose eternal life WITH Christ in heaven. It doesn't mean losing the eternal nature of ones soul no matter what dispensation you are discussing.

                              Therefore your point about eternity and time and eternal life is entirely baseless.
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                              • Originally posted by Knight
                                Losing eternal life in regard to salvation means to lose eternal life WITH Christ in heaven. It doesn't mean losing the eternal nature of ones soul no matter what dispensation you are discussing.
                                Knight,

                                We are not speaking of losing "the eternal nature of one's soul".Instead,the reference is in regard to losing "eternal salvation".

                                The following words of the Lord Jesus are in regard to "eternal salvation":

                                "He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting (eternal) life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life"(Jn.5:24).

                                Here is what Jeremy says about this verse:

                                "Yes Jerry, the "life" is eternal. God "gives" them eternal life. However, as I've already shown, they were not secure. They could "stop believing" and lose eternal life."

                                This can be found on "The Attributes of God" forum and on the thread titled "A Challenge for the followers of Bob Enyart"(02-25-2004 04:54 AM).

                                In His grace,--Jerry

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