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  • #31
    Re: Re: Re: OK

    Originally posted by Berean Todd

    ...the strict adherance to Mr Enyart and his book "the Plot" comes up over and again from your side of the debate here...
    A lot of times, it's those on the other side who bring up Enyart and "the Plot."
    BRXI: Should Christians support the Death Penalty?

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    • #32
      Knight....I might be able to get a really big name for the closed view side of this debate. I would really appreciate it if you could hold the spot open until I get this person's response. It will be a surprise...

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      • #33
        Re: debate

        Originally posted by add yasaf

        I recommend Clete Pfieffer, for the open view and myself, for what you guys call the closed view. Did you already have somene in mind for the open view?
        Originally posted by Turbo
        Clete is awesome on this topic!
        While I very much appreciate the vote of confidence, I'm not sure that I'm qualified for such a debate. I basically consider myself just a hack and have zero formal education or training.
        sigpic
        "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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        • #34
          premature

          IYGTTUAS quote - Knight....I might be able to get a really big name for the closed view side of this debate. I would really appreciate it if you could hold the spot open until I get this person's response. It will be a surprise...


          I would like to be informed of that decision. Why? Because I have read most of the closed views theologies. More than closed viewers do. And I know which ones would be or would not be good. For instance, any Calvinist would not as good as Arminians on the subject, simply because they will end up with the answer that it all is a mystery a lot more prematurely then an Arminian would.

          Not that mystery is a bad thing, but every one I have read, simply ignore obvious verses in the Bible. One of the reasons I am an Arminian is because I feel it does the best justice to all of Scripture, and feels no complusion to hide behind certain texts, and ignore other ones. I can deal with Acts 13:48 as well as I can deal with I John 2:2 which supports an Arminiain understanding.

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          • #35
            Knight

            Hey adajos do you know the folks at Greg Boyd's website personally?

            If so... we would love to be linked in their "other ministries" links section located...

            http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/index.asp?PageID=542

            We at TOL have been defending the open view on the internet since 1996!
            No I'm afraid I don't know them (or Greg) personally--I was never lucky enough to have a class with him, although I attended many a chapel service as well as quite a few of his church services.

            I'd suggest going to http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/index.asp?PageID=260
            and having a look at the two email addresses that are provided for contact info. Through them you may be able to get TOL added to their links page, and possibly entice Greg or somebody else to argue for the open view in a Battle Royale.
            Warm Regards,

            adajos

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            • #36
              Originally posted by IYGTTUAS

              Knight....I might be able to get a really big name for the closed view side of this debate. I would really appreciate it if you could hold the spot open until I get this person's response. It will be a surprise...
              Sweet!

              When will you know?
              Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
              TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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              • #37
                Re: premature

                Originally posted by add yasaf

                IYGTTUAS quote - Knight....I might be able to get a really big name for the closed view side of this debate. I would really appreciate it if you could hold the spot open until I get this person's response. It will be a surprise...
                Well, have you found out yet? huh, huh, huh?? Well, have ya?
                You got me in suspense.
                "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



                Check out the "rightest" of all right wing moms. FarRightMom


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                • #38
                  huh

                  Uh Poly, that wasn't me, that was IGGY.

                  You don't need a big name, just one who knows all sides, in which I qualify. Calvinists, esp, look at Arminianism and Open Theism as a joke, and don't even bother to study their take on everything, so most of them are very ill-equipped to deal with it.

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                  • #39
                    Re: huh

                    Originally posted by add yasaf

                    Uh Poly, that wasn't me, that was IGGY.

                    You don't need a big name, just one who knows all sides, in which I qualify. Calvinists, esp, look at Arminianism and Open Theism as a joke, and don't even bother to study their take on everything, so most of them are very ill-equipped to deal with it.
                    Calvinists have not cornered the market on being closed minded, entrenched and prejudiced.
                    That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.
                    Philippians 2:15

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                    • #40
                      Re: huh

                      Originally posted by add yasaf
                      You don't need a big name, just one who knows all sides, in which I qualify. Calvinists, esp, look at Armenianism and Open Theism as a joke, and don't even bother to study their take on everything, so most of them are very ill-equipped to deal with it.
                      I would say they are ill-equipped because its difficult to give a Biblical apologetic for something based in Greek philosophy. This may also explain why there isn't a great deal of Bible study going on the Body of Christ. It's difficult to keep interested in a Bible study when everything you've been taught by those who are supposed to know what they are talking about is contradicted on nearly every page of the Bible.

                      And please don't be offended by my saying so, but while I don't doubt that you are knowledgeable enough to play devil's advocate and argue the closed view effectively, I must say that it seems to me that someone who actually held that view would make a more passionate and therefore more interesting argument.

                      Your brother in Christ.
                      Clete
                      sigpic
                      "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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                      • #41
                        Re: Re: huh

                        Originally posted by LightSon

                        Calvinists have not cornered the market on being closed minded, entrenched and prejudiced.
                        Yeh!

                        Like Democrats for example!
                        sigpic
                        "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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                        • #42
                          debating

                          Lightson quote - Calvinists have not cornered the market on being closed minded, entrenched and prejudiced.


                          Well, while that is true, they seem to have the greatest propensity toward it. One of their own acknowledges just this thing, in very stark terms - John Frame in this - http://www.christianbook.com/Christi...&event=6857SPF



                          Clete quote - while I don't doubt that you are knowledgeable enough to play devil's advocate and argue the closed view effectively, I must say that it seems to me that someone who actually held that view would make a more passionate and therefore more interesting argument.



                          Actually Knight is placing Arminianism in with the closed view for this debate. So since I am an Arminian, I guess I qualify. The problem I have with open theists is that they are saying the others are being inconsistent. This is simply not true, for the most part, at least the Arminians. And also for the most part the Calvinists.

                          While I am certainly no where near being passionate about whether or not one is an open theist or not, I do know the subject better than most, students and faculty. I have been in many a discussion on this subject on and off this site, and when someone gets very passionate about their view they tend to mess up. I feel I can bring that neutral type atmosphere to the debate.

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                          • #43
                            Re: debating

                            Originally posted by add yasaf
                            Actually Knight is placing Arminianism in with the closed view for this debate. So since I am an Arminian, I guess I qualify. The problem I have with open theists is that they are saying the others are being inconsistent. This is simply not true, for the most part, at least the Arminians. And also for the most part the Calvinists.

                            While I am certainly no where near being passionate about whether or not one is an open theist or not, I do know the subject better than most, students and faculty. I have been in many a discussion on this subject on and off this site, and when someone gets very passionate about their view they tend to mess up. I feel I can bring that neutral type atmosphere to the debate.
                            I stand corrected.
                            sigpic
                            "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by add yasaf

                              so most of them are very ill-equipped to deal with it.
                              Ever read Beyond the Bounds?

                              Yours in Christ,

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                              • #45
                                Re: debating

                                Originally posted by add yasaf
                                Actually Knight is placing Arminianism in with the closed view for this debate.
                                Wouldn't you do the same?

                                After all... perfect exhaustive foreknowledge is by definition perfect... right?
                                Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
                                TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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