Dispensationaism Proven.

[Jerry Shugart]

That is a LIE and you KNOW it! I will no longer converse is a HABITUAL LIAR!

I have CLEARLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY declared that these are NOT THE SAME GOSPEL.... MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES.

You are DISHONEST and a LIAR.

According to what you said earlier I could only understand that you were saying that the gospel he preached at the beginning of his ministry to the Jews is the same gospel which he preached in his ministry to the Gentiles.

When did he preach the gospel which had been foretold by the prophets?

 

[binyamin7]

I believe that the present dispensation began when Paul started preaching the gospel of grace. Here are three quotes from him where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).​

I believe that Paul first began to preach the gospel of grace when he began preaching a gospel to the Gentiles at Acts 13:46-48.

The Bibical dispensation is a "stewardship" and all those who have been given a stewardship have a responsibility under that stewardship. What stewardship responsibility was exercised when you say that the present stewardship had its beginning?

Did Sir Robert Anderson believe your MAD?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Did Sir Robert Anderson believe your MAD?

I am not aware of any place where he specifically stated when it started but he did write the following:

"Who can fail to mark the contrast between the earlier and the later chapters of the Acts of the Apostles? Measured by years the period they embrace is comparatively brief; but morally the latter portion of the narrative seems to belong to a different age. And such is in fact the case. A new dispensation has begun, and the Book of the Acts covers historically the period of the transition" (Sir Robert Anderson, The Silence of God [Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 1978], 45).​

An examination of the book of Acts reveals that it was at Acts 13 when Paul began to preach the "gospel of grace" to the Gentiles so that would be what Anderson was speaking about when he said that "the latter portion of the narrative seems to belong to a different age."

John Nelson Darby, considered by many to be the father of modern dispensationalism, taught that the present dispensation began after Acts 2:

"Reference to the second chapter of Galatians will confirm and establish the point historically as to the present dispensation, where not only is the fact stated of Paul having the ministry of the Gentiles, as Peter of the circumcision; but it was actually agreed on their conference, consequent upon the grace given, that Paul and Barnabas should go to the uncircumcision; and James, and Cephas, and John should go to the circumcision. And so far was the apostle's mind under Judaising influence, that it required a positive fresh revelation to induce him to go into company with a Gentile at all, and even after this he would not eat when certain came from James. In fact the Gentile dispensation, as a distinct thing, took its rise on the death of Stephen, the witness that the Jews resisted the Holy Ghost: as their fathers did, so did they" (John Nelson Darby, The Apostasy Of The Successive Dispensations).​

Although Darby taught that the Body of Christ began at Acts 2 he also recognized that the present dispensation did not start until later. I think that it was at Acts 7 when the nation of Israel was temporaily set aside as the LORD's agent upon the earth and that marks the beginning of the Body of Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

I think that it was at Acts 7 when the nation of Israel was temporaily set aside as the LORD's agent upon the earth and that marks the beginning of the Body of Christ.

:french:
Peter and the guys were in the "body of Christ" but didn't know about it. That's funny stuff there.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter and the guys were in the "body of Christ" but didn't know about it. That's funny stuff there.

Peter and the guys were being saved by the fact that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" but they didn't know it at the time.

Of course you deny that Peter was saved by grace through faith because you believe that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite what Paul wrote here:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

According to your teaching the believing Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

Now let us look at what is written here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

The word "whosoever" in this verse must include not only the Gentile believers as well as the Jews who lived under the law. So all people who believe in the Lord Jesus has in their possession everlasting life and they shall never perish.

That's funny stuff there.

I woudn't want to be in your shoes when you stand before the Lord Jesus and am confronted with the fact that you refused to believe His words. You won't think it is funny then.

 

[Right Divider]

I woudn't want to be in your shoes when you stand before the Lord Jesus and am confronted with the fact that you refused to believe His words. You won't think it is funny then.

Eternal life is a gift and not a reward. I have always said that Jerry.

Your complete lack of ability to understand the context of the earthly ministry of Christ and the OTHER ministry of Christ is consistently noted.

The twelve apostles will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Don't you believe what the Lord Jesus said Jerry?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Eternal life is a gift and not a reward.

Eternal life is a gift that is given as a reward to those that please God.

 

[Right Divider]

Eternal life is a gift that is given as a reward to those that please God.

Nope.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Eternal life is a gift and not a reward. I have always said that Jerry.

So you admit that all the Jews who lived under the law received eternal life by faith and faith alone?

 

[Right Divider]

Eternal life is a gift and not a reward. I have always said that Jerry.

So you admit that all the Jews who lived under the law received eternal life by faith and faith alone?

Jerry cannot read.

Could Israel be faithful without keeping the law?

 

[glorydaz]

Jerry cannot read.

Could Israel be faithful without keeping the law?

And that is the question Jerry refuses to acknowledge. :thumb:

 

[Right Divider]

And that is the question Jerry refuses to acknowledge. :thumb:

Jerry has a one track mind. :yawn:

 

[glorydaz]

Eternal life is a gift that is given as a reward to those that please God.

Meditate on the word, GO. If what you say is true, men could boast.

Eph. 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry has a one track mind.

Right Divider asks a lot of questions but he refuses to answer any. He admits that eternal life is a gift but he refuses to answer my question:

So you admit that all the Jews who lived under the law received eternal life by faith and faith alone?​

Or are you under the impression that the believing Jews who lived under the law had to do works in order to receive the "gift" of eternal life?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry cannot read.

Could Israel be faithful without keeping the law?

No, but why do you not believe the words of the Lord Jesus concerning how the "individual" Jew who lived under the law received the gift of everlasting life?:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

I see nothing in any of these words of Lord Jesus which even hint that one of the requirements besides believing was to be faithful to the law. Of course all believers are called to be faithful but that is not a requirement to receive the "gift" of everlasting life.

What puzzles me is why you call yourself a Christian but at the same time you deny what He said about how the Jews who lived under the law received everlasting life.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Meditate on the word, GO. If what you say is true, men could boast.

Eph. 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

Do you know what kind of faith pleases God enough for Him to save us by His grace?
If you did, you wouldn't make the claim that men could boast about having that kind of faith.

James 4:6 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And that is the question Jerry refuses to acknowledge.

I answered the question so if anything about my answer is in error then tell us exactly what I said that is wrong.

 

[Crucifer]

Dispensationalism is what happens when biblical literalism goes too far and people start seeing things that aren't actually there. This is especially true when people incidentally have all kinds of shady reasons to cater to Israel nonstop while they take all your political seats which basically is pure cuckoldry on a silver platter and you wonder why people take issue with it.

This is probably the only conservative site where I haven't heard anyone say 'America First'
I wonder why :chuckle:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Dispensationalism is what happens when biblical literalism goes too far and people start seeing things that aren't actually there. This is especially true when people incidentally have all kinds of shady reasons to cater to Israel nonstop while they take all your political seats which basically is pure cuckoldry on a silver platter and you wonder why people take issue with it.

Dispensationalism is man's attempt to separate Christians as a special group chosen by God to have a different fate than the fate of God's chosen people the children of Israel.
The fate of the children of Israel is clearly the fulfillment of God's promises to them.

Genesis 17:8 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Dispensationalism is man's attempt to separate Christians as a special group chosen by God to have a different fate than the fate of God's chosen people the children of Israel.

That's not what most dispensationalists teach.