Dispensationaism Proven.

binyamin7

Active member
You know, punk, that your James 2:3 KJV is a sin, don't you, poser? Yes....And that you will not "inherit the kingdom of God?"

I didn't realize the KJV of James 2:3 said that as I use NKJV. That got a laugh out of me. Since one of my threads was examining weather Rome is the whore in Revelation 17-18, it's likely safe to conclude that I am not Catholic.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
I didn't realize the KJV of James 2:3 said that as I use NKJV. That got a laugh out of me. Since one of my threads was examining weather Rome is the whore in Revelation 17-18, it's likely safe to conclude that I am not Catholic.
You're a Catholic, and dig men. My evidence? You.
I use NKJV

Another bible corrector/agnostic/mystic is exposed, as he "uses," or "prefers," the/a bible, like ice creme, not believing any one of them, only "using" those that agree with his "doctrine."
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
I won't pick on you anymore I just felt like you were attacking GenOrig with too many personal attacks. Hopefully people can read our dialogue on this board and still see our love for one another.
"Pick on me," you muse? That's rich. Your not in my league.

And "personal" attacks, you cliche? Would you prefer I employ "impersonal" attacks?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
I am not interested in doing this with you. I will pray for you.

So predictable....You MAD wacko.....All the bible says the same thing....We will pray for you, my dear, misguided, John W.


Catholics have perfected that "close."


Save it-I need not a prayer, from a "Hail Mary" advocate.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
It is not Biblical to say that God is saving people who reject Christ, and this is not what dispensationalism teaches.
It is also not Biblical to say that God completely replaced natural Israel, when in fact we are clearly told "All of [natural] Israel shall be saved" in the future in Romans 11:25-26.

We clearly see in Zechariah 12 that natural Israel will be surrounded and under attack from "all the nations" (Zech 12:2-3) and Israel prays and is sent the One "whom they pierced" (Zech12:10-11). So you see Israel gets saved by crying out humbly to YH and then Christ comes to save them. This lines up precisely with what Jesus said in Matt 23:39 when He said to the Pharisees and specifically Jerusalem they would "see Me no more till you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!". (Matt 23:37-39)

God will bring back natural Israel in the latter years (Ezek 37:12, 38:8, Lk 21:24, etc etc) and Honor the covenant He made with natural Israel in Genesis 15. How do we know this? Well two very clear reasons we can conclude this are:

1. God has spoken many unfulfilled prophecies pertaining to natural geographic Israel and surrounding nations that have yet to be fulfilled- and we are seeing them being fulfilled. (Dan 9:24-27, Ezek 37-39, Dan 11:35-12:4, Joel 3, Ps 83, Zech 12-14)
2. Paul very explicitly said that "Israel has been blinded in part until the period of the Gentiles is fulfilled. And so, as it is written, ALL OF ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED" -Romans 11:25-26.


Spiritually Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ, yet God still made a covenant with natural Israel in Gen 15 which He will honor. Men and women are one, and have different purposes and positions. Members of the Body of Christ are one, and still have different functions and purposes. This is not a contradiction.

If replacement theology was true, then why is God literally fulfilling all the prophecies in the Word systematically in front of our eyes?!

There is a difference between the biological offspring of Jacob/Israel and those of Israel that chose to believe.

Those of Israel who reject and have rejected God have rejected God, they shall mot be saved.

The just, the righteous shall live by believing. Not only believe in this life but they have believed to eternal life

They became righteous because they believed.
 

binyamin7

Active member
There is a difference between the biological offspring of Jacob/Israel and those of Israel that chose to believe.

Those of Israel who reject and have rejected God have rejected God, they shall mot be saved.

The just, the righteous shall live by believing. Not only believe in this life but they have believed to eternal life

They became righteous because they believed.

That is true, however we also know that natural Israeli's/ Hebrews- many of whom were saved by faith in the past and a remnant is still to this day- will in the future repent and believe in the Messiah en masse. That is what I proved in the opening statement.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I believe we entered into the dispensation of the grace of God/ Church age/ period of the Gentiles upon the Resurrection.

I believe that the present dispensation began when Paul started preaching the gospel of grace. Here are three quotes from him where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you"
(Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me"
(1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God"
(Acts 20: 24).​

I believe that Paul first began to preach the gospel of grace when he began preaching a gospel to the Gentiles at Acts 13:46-48.

The Bibical dispensation is a "stewardship" and all those who have been given a stewardship have a responsibility under that stewardship. What stewardship responsibility was exercised when you say that the present stewardship had its beginning?
 
Last edited:

Right Divider

Body part
I believe that the present dispensation began when Paul started preaching the gospel of grace. Here are three quotes from him where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you"
(Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me"
(1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God"
(Acts 20: 24).​

I believe that Paul first began to preach the gospel of grace when he began preaching a gospel to the Gentiles at Acts 13:46-48.

The Bibical dispensation is a "stewardship" and all those who have been given a stewardship have a responsibility under that stewardship. What stewardship responsibility was exercised when you say that the present stewardship had its beginning?
Honest question....

You believe that the body of Christ began in Acts 7, but the teacher/preacher of the gospel of the grace of God didn't begin teaching/preaching ITS doctrine until Acts 13?

How does that work? A secret body of Christ for 10-20 years?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Honest question....

You believe that the body of Christ began in Acts 7, but the teacher/preacher of the gospel of the grace of God didn't begin teaching/preaching ITS doctrine until Acts 13?

How does that work? A secret body of Christ for 10-20 years?

Shortly after Israel was temporarily set aside and the Jewish believers were made members of the Body of Christ Paul was converted on the Damascus road and was given two different ministeries, one to the Jews and the other to the Gentiles (Acts 9:15). Paul began with his ministry to the Jews almost immediately (Acts 9:20-23) but it was sometime later that he received the gospel which he preached to the Gentiles, as witnessed by his following words:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17).​

When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia. Then as early as the time he wrote his first epistle to the church at Cornith we see that epistle was not only addressed to all the believers in Cornith but also to all the believers everywhere who call on the name of Jesus Christ:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" (1 Cor.1:2).​

So we can understand that the following words were addressed to all the believers living at the time this epistle was written which would include not only the Gentile believers but also the Jewish believers (including the Twelve):

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
(1 Cor.12:13).​

Therefore, according to the Apostle Paul, not only were the Gentile believers made members of the Body of Christ but also the Jewish believers who called on the name of the Lord Jesus. Therefore, the Twelve were also members of the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?"
(Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

You asked about the timing of the revealing of the truth by Paul in regard to the Body of Christ and I say that the LORD Himself was responsible for when it would be revealed and who am I to question when He decided to have that truth revealed?

All I know that when it was revealed all of the believers in every place were members of the Body of Christ so therefore the Twelve are members of the Body of Christ.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Shortly after Israel was temporarily set aside and the Jewish believers were made members of the Body of Christ Paul was converted on the Damascus road and was given two different ministeries, one to the Jews and the other to the Gentiles (Acts 9:15).
Acts 9:15 does NOT say that Paul was given TWO DIFFERENT ministries. You made that up.

Paul began with his ministry to the Jews almost immediately (Acts 9:20-23) but it was sometime later that he received the gospel which he preached to the Gentiles, as witnessed by his following words:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17).​
Once again says nothing of two different ministries. You are forcing your ideas into the text without warrant.

When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8).
They LED Paul to Damascus because he could see. Paul was blind for three days.

Act 9:8 KJV And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia. Then as early as the time he wrote his first epistle to the church at Cornith we see that epistle was not only addressed to all the believers in Cornith but also to all the believers everywhere who call on the name of Jesus Christ:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" (1 Cor.1:2).​
You continue for attempt to force your story on the scripture.

So we can understand that the following words were addressed to all the believers living at the time this epistle was written which would include not only the Gentile believers but also the Jewish believers (including the Twelve):

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
(1 Cor.12:13).​
So according you, God changed the calling of the twelve from their prophetic program for the twelve tribes of Israel and MOVED THEM into the body of Christ.

But we know from scripture that God does NOT change a mans calling. 1 Cor 7:17-24.

Therefore, according to the Apostle Paul, not only were the Gentile believers made members of the Body of Christ but also the Jewish believers who called on the name of the Lord Jesus. Therefore, the Twelve were also members of the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?"
(Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

You asked about the timing of the revealing of the truth by Paul in regard to the Body of Christ and I say that the LORD Himself was responsible for when it would be revealed and who am I to question when He decided to have that truth revealed?

All I know that when it was revealed all of the believers in every place were members of the Body of Christ so therefore the Twelve are members of the Body of Christ.
Don't question God, question yourself.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Acts 9:15 does NOT say that Paul was given TWO DIFFERENT ministries. You made that up.

If you are right then we must believe that Paul preach the same gospel to the Jews at Acts 9 that he preached to the Gentiles? Is that your argument?

They LED Paul to Damascus because he could see. Paul was blind for three days.

No one said otherwise but nothing you said answered what I said about the following words of Paul:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus"
(Gal.1:15-17).​

When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia.

That can only mean that the gospel which he preached to the Jews in the synagogues was not the same gospel which he preached to Gentiles because he didn't receive that gospel from the Lord Jesus until AFTER he had been preaching to the Jews in the synagogues. Here is what he preached in the synagogues:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is very Christ"
(Acts 9:20,22).​

"Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ" (Acts 17:1-3).​

Paul was preaching the same gospel to the Jews which the Twelve preached to the Jews:

"And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more"
(Acts 20:25).

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where"
(Lk.9:1-2,6).​

Are you saying that the "gospel" mentioned in this passage is the same gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles?

You continue for attempt to force your story on the scripture.

You say that but you do not even attempt to prove that I forced anything. Besides Cornelius Stam there are many people who share my belief that Paul's first epistle to the church at Corinth was addressed to all believers at the time he wrote that epistle and that would have to include the Twelve. Matthew Henry wrote:

"In conjunction with the church at Corinth, he directs the epistle 'to all that in every place call on the name of Christ Jesus our Lord, both theirs and ours'" (Matthew Henry, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).

John Nelson Darby understood the verse in the same way, writing the following:

"He addresses the assembly of God at Corinth, adding a character (the application of which is evident when we consider the contents of the epistle) 'sanctified in Christ Jesus.' Afterwards the universality of the application of the doctrine and instructions of the epistle, and of its authority over all Christians, wherever they might be, is brought forward in this address" (John Nelson Darby, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

A.R. Fausset comments on the verse matches the commentary of both Stam and Darby:

"with all that in every place call upon . . . Christ--The Epistle is intended for these also, as well as for the Corinthians. The true CATHOLIC CHURCH (a term first used by IGNATIUS [Epistle to the Smyraeans, 8]): not consisting of those who call themselves from Paul, Cephas, or any other eminent leader ( 1Cr 1:12 ), but of all, wherever they be, who call on Jesus as their Saviour in sincerity (compare 2Ti 2:22). Still a general unity of discipline and doctrine in the several churches is implied in 1Cr 4:17 7:17 11:16 14:33, 36" (A. R. Fausset, Jamieson, Fausset & Brown; Commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

Can you quote anyone who says that the epistle was written to all those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus EXCEPT the Twelve?

Therefore, a correct understanding of what Paul wrote in his opening words found in 1 Corinthians reveal that Paul's following words were addressed to all the believers living at the time this epistle was written, which would include not only the Gentile believers but also the Jewish believers (including the Twelve):

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

So according you, God changed the calling of the twelve from their prophetic program for the twelve tribes of Israel and MOVED THEM into the body of Christ.

But we know from scripture that God does NOT change a mans calling. 1 Cor 7:17-24.

At 1 Corinthians 7:17-24 when Paul speaks of a believer's "calling" he is no referring to the fact
that those who are "circumcised" must keep the calling which the "nation" of Israel was originally given. Instead, he is saying that circumcision was a matter of small importance compared with keeping God's commandments. Then he says that a believer's vocational situation is also a matter of little consequence because both the freeman and the servant are both the servants of the Lord Jesus.

Don't question God, question yourself.

It's you who questions God because you say that those who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite what the Savior Himself told the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

Even though the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law that those who "believe" on Him have everlasting life you question His words because you say that "faith" alone was not enough for those people.
 

Right Divider

Body part
If you are right then we must believe that Paul preach the same gospel to the Jews at Acts 9 that he preached to the Gentiles? Is that your argument?
No, my argument is that Paul preached the ALL THE COUNSEL of God.

No one said otherwise but nothing you said answered what I said about the following words of Paul:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus"
(Gal.1:15-17).​

When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia.
Please demonstrate FROM scripture that Paul "received a gospel from Lord Jesus on the Damascus road".

Once again, you are forcing your story on the scripture. You are reading INTO IT things that are just not there.

That can only mean that the gospel which he preached to the Jews in the synagogues was not the same gospel which he preached to Gentiles because he didn't receive that gospel from the Lord Jesus until AFTER he had been preaching to the Jews in the synagogues. Here is what he preached in the synagogues:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is very Christ"
(Acts 9:20,22).​
"Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ" (Acts 17:1-3).​

Paul was preaching the same gospel to the Jews which the Twelve preached to the Jews:
Please be aware of the simple fact that Paul could not possibly preach the gospel of the grace of God to the Jews there unless they agreed on who the Christ was to start with. If Paul could not get past that with THEM, there was no way to proceed on to ALL THE COUNSEL of God.

Who the Christ was and is was a stumbling block to the unbelieving Jews.

P.S. I like much of Stam... but his "12 in" is wrong in my opinion. So you can quit quoting him as I don't care what he thinks on this topic.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame

You say that but you do not even attempt to prove that I forced anything. Besides Cornelius Stam there are many people who share my belief that Paul's first epistle to the church at Corinth was addressed to all believers at the time he wrote that epistle and that would have to include the Twelve. Matthew Henry wrote:

"In conjunction with the church at Corinth, he directs the epistle 'to all that in every place call on the name of Christ Jesus our Lord, both theirs and ours'" (Matthew Henry, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).

John Nelson Darby understood the verse in the same way, writing the following:

"He addresses the assembly of God at Corinth, adding a character (the application of which is evident when we consider the contents of the epistle) 'sanctified in Christ Jesus.' Afterwards the universality of the application of the doctrine and instructions of the epistle, and of its authority over all Christians, wherever they might be, is brought forward in this address" (John Nelson Darby, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

A.R. Fausset comments on the verse matches the commentary of both Stam and Darby:

"with all that in every place call upon . . . Christ--The Epistle is intended for these also, as well as for the Corinthians. The true CATHOLIC CHURCH (a term first used by IGNATIUS [Epistle to the Smyraeans, 8]): not consisting of those who call themselves from Paul, Cephas, or any other eminent leader ( 1Cr 1:12 ), but of all, wherever they be, who call on Jesus as their Saviour in sincerity (compare 2Ti 2:22). Still a general unity of discipline and doctrine in the several churches is implied in 1Cr 4:17 7:17 11:16 14:33, 36" (A. R. Fausset, Jamieson, Fausset & Brown; Commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

vs. Jer, over, and over again, on TOL, cries...
Once again, you prove that you believe what men write, not the bible.


This is why most on TOL members do not take Jer very seriously, and let him play in his playground. He is a great actor, however.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Please demonstrate FROM scripture that Paul "received a gospel from Lord Jesus on the Damascus road".

Once again, you are forcing your story on the scripture. You are reading INTO IT things that are just not there.

Was not Paul preaching the "gospel" or "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, in Damascus after His encounter with the Lord Jesus at Damascus (Acts 9:20,22,27)?

Of course he was and the Jews who believed that message were born again upon believing that gospel (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31).

That gospel couldn't possibly be the same one which he preached to the Gentiles because after learning that gospel from the Lord Jesus he went immediately into Arabia:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus"
(Gal.1:15-17).​

Paul hadn't yet been to Arabia at the time he was preaching a gospel in the synagogues in Damascus. Therefore, we can understand that he didn't receive the gospel he preached to the Gentiles until after he had preached a gospel in Damascus. And in the book of Romans Paul speaks of two different gospels which he preached. One gospel was according to what the OT prophets revealed and the other was kept secret:

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Ro.1:1-3).​

That gospel which was promised by the OT prophets couldn't possibly be the following gospel that Paul refers to here:

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" (Ro.16:25).​

Since the gospel which Paul makes reference to here was kept secret since the world began then it couldn't possibly be the same gospel of which the OT prophets promised.

You continue for attempt to force your story on the scripture.

Since you say that I am wrong when I say that 1 Corinthians was addressed to not only the believers at the church at Corinth but unto all the believers living at the time when he wrote the following words then tell us why the Twelve should be excluded from the words in "bold":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours"
(1 Cor.1:2).​

I see nothing in these bolded words which even hints that any Jewish believers were not included. But you think otherwise. So since you know that I am wrong please give us your interpretation of the meaning of Paul's words in this verse.

And if it me who attempts to force my views on the Scriptures then tell me why I am in error by asserting that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith and faith alone since that is what the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
(Jn.6:47).​

Please tell me why I shouldn't believe that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by believing and nothing more with these words of the Savior in view?
 

Right Divider

Body part
Was not Paul preaching the "gospel" or "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, in Damascus after His encounter with the Lord Jesus at Damascus (Acts 9:20,22,27)?
Indeed he was. This gospel was already widely known.

AGAIN I ASK: Please demonstrate FROM scripture that Paul "received a gospel from Lord Jesus on the Damascus road".

I will not read the rest of your post until you address that.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
AGAIN I ASK: Please demonstrate FROM scripture that Paul "received a gospel from Lord Jesus on the Damascus road".

The word "gospel" means "good news." Before Paul was converted on the Damascus road He did not believe the truth which had previously been revealed, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. But listen to his words after his encounter with the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road:

"And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. And I said, What shall I do, Lord?"
(Acts 22:7-10).​

Of course after that encounter Paul knew for certain that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. So at the moment when he realized that fact he had received the "gospel" or "good news" that Jesus is indeed the Christ, the Son of God.

That gospel is the one which He preached to the Jews and that gospel was was according to what the OT prophets revealed, the gospel which promised Israel a coming Savior:

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Ro.1:1-3).​

That gospel which was promised by the OT prophets couldn't possibly be the following gospel that Paul refers to here:

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began"
(Ro.16:25).​

A gospel which was promised by the OT prophets cannot be the same gospel which had been kept secret since the world began. But to you they are one and the same gospel.
 

Right Divider

Body part
A gospel which was promised by the OT prophets cannot be the same gospel which had been kept secret since the world began. But to you they are one and the same gospel.
That is a LIE and you KNOW it! I will no longer converse is a HABITUAL LIAR!

I have CLEARLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY declared that these are NOT THE SAME GOSPEL.... MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES.

You are DISHONEST and a LIAR.
 
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