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  • #31
    Originally posted by Eeset View Post
    Spoiler


    that thought crossed my mind before i heard anybody said it already -

    i like samuel

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    • #32
      Love provides.........

      Originally posted by Eeset View Post
      Spoiler


      Mark Twain did have a good share of common sense and rationality about him. Its a good question, since many have put the character of 'satan', 'lucifer', 'the devil', etc. into a somewhat 'fixed' role, as if these sentient beings could not change,, but it just so happens if God's love is infinite, then there could be a possibility that even fallen angels or rebel sons of God COULD repent and re-turn to 'God', being restored in his service....and why not?

      Some early church fathers like Origen believed in 'universal reconciliation', and entertained the possibility that even 'satan' might be saved when all things and beings are reconciled in Christ. "all shall be made alive in Christ". There are some that contend that the first 5 centuries of Christian theology was more kin towards 'universalism' than what later evolved into a more exclusive conditional salvation system. Im a universalist at heart seeing the divine will ultimately triumph... love being all-supreme. In such a context, if love does ultimately triumph...then God's will is indeed ultimately victorious, and in the end 'God' does become all in all. The only other alternative is a system of 'conditional immortality' where the free-will of each soul is 'sovereign' as regards its personal destiny, some souls choosing life, some souls bearing the consequence of their final choice as the 'second death' (disintegration of individual existence).

      I might add that in some schools...the devil (whether depicted as 'satan' or 'lucifer') has already converted over in the spirit-world and is now serving 'God'. Awesome eh ? Man has enough of his own problems with his own propensity towards sin and selfishness to attain self-mastery over himself, than assuming a devil or 'satan' is to blame for tempting him, for man is for the most part tempted by his own desires. As I've said before,....as long as a sentient being has the ability to repent, there is hope of salvation, since God will not turn away a truly penitent heart or contrite spirit, who calls upon his name. Therefore in every situation, 'repentance' is the key.

      It might behoove some that the Bible is not the only artifact of religious literature that contains 'revelation', since revelation is on-going, enlightenment progressive. Therefore there really is no 'closed canon', as revelations are given when the time is ripe for them, during seasons or dispensations. Love's provision is ever available,(unless one could totally and finally reject such love), for such is Love's will and nature to provide for.


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      • #33
        Originally posted by freelight View Post
        ~*~*~

        Ah, where shall we begin? First my proposal, guidelines and vision for this thread, which I suggest all posters/readers to respect, in which respect will then be given back,...as per forum rules and common courtesy. That's the 'ideal' here.

        My project-theme for the thread is a fun, casual, kick-back atmosphere, like a 'cafe'...where you can relax, have a few health snacks on the menu, enjoy some excellent beverages and also some nice smaller size meals to wet your palate and nourish your soul. Fellow poets, soul-voyagers, connoisseurs and traders are welcome, but the goods are 'metaphysical'

        I know the proposed theme for this forum is supposed to be where no holds barred battles take place',...but even in that context I offer a re-direct on that; - this will be a safe-haven from the mean streets surrounding the alley, for travelers....a place for those looking to question their own beliefs, opinions, assumptions about 'God', 'religion', 'reality', etc. A 'reality-check point'. Such takes intellectual honesty and brutal transparency (hence the battle with one's own self, where sorting out what is 'true' from what is 'false' takes place). This inner search may include admitting you don't know (agnosis) about a particular subject or even about anything at all It might also include acknowledging that your 'belief' or 'opinion' about anything is just that (just an 'belief' or 'opinion')...its subject to change. "wax on, wax off".

        I coming from a more liberal eclectic background and prospectus am available to facilitate and direct 'creative dialogue' with those interested in probing their own minds and maybe breaking thru old paradigms to explore new dimensions and expand consciousness. That's what I'm all about anyways, for those who know me...at least so far in this life-journey. Life is the experience of what you do with-in the space and time afforded you,..this is what creation is.

        You're in freelights cozy little pub so be cognizant of what you're in for (for some this will be delightful, for others not so much ). If a 'fight' breaks out anywhere,...let it be against your own inner demons and 'assumptions' about life, or even your own view of yourself. Remember, its just a point of view. Expect all the goodies and benefits that come with our 'creating' (provided you have the creativity and intelligence to engage in actual 'dialogue' for the mere enjoyment or learning-potential of such),...as we venture forward as co-creators

        At this point in your journey (having stopped at the cosmic café), have a peaceful reflection and meditation about where you are at in life (here in the 'eternal now'), what its all about, and where you are going, and what significance this might have within the greater cosmos. Knock yourself out, but be kind to yourself in the process. This will also be a venue to probe freelight's mind on various religious/philosophical subjects, in a fun adventurous way, as if I didn't share enough on that in other threads quite generously As Emerson said, "hitch your wagon to a star"....and enjoy the ride

        [ATTACH]20128[/ATTACH]

        freelight:
        I'm going to go a ways with you here:
        I Realize that you are a Genius of some-sort not sure how much or far, but I think You Are. - However, it's not just being a "Genius" that is the important thing. It's where ones Ingenuity lies. -- Hitler and Obama are / were Geniuses, but Geniuses of "LYING", and nothing else. - Moses and Jesus were Geniuses, but geniuses of Truth, and nothing else. - Normal People today, regardless of their Genius, it's where their Ingenuity lies. However, I see that your ingenuity / genius lies only in Yourself; not with anything else. There is not Any Single thing or thing written that you can hold to, but every thing that you can but in with your own belief, to make your belief Grow. --- I could go farther, but no need; I think that's enough!!

        PAUL, DAVID -- 091215
        ---Gal. 4:16.
        ---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???

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        • #34
          The genius of Spirit is a seed in all........

          Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
          freelight:
          I'm going to go a ways with you here:
          I Realize that you are a Genius of some-sort not sure how much or far, but I think You Are. - However, it's not just being a "Genius" that is the important thing. It's where ones Ingenuity lies. -- Hitler and Obama are / were Geniuses, but Geniuses of "LYING", and nothing else. - Moses and Jesus were Geniuses, but geniuses of Truth, and nothing else. - Normal People today, regardless of their Genius, it's where their Ingenuity lies. However, I see that your ingenuity / genius lies only in Yourself; not with anything else. There is not Any Single thing or thing written that you can hold to, but every thing that you can but in with your own belief, to make your belief Grow. --- I could go farther, but no need; I think that's enough!!

          PAUL, DAVID -- 091215
          Hi Lets,

          I trust you did read my past post-response to yours here

          I don't claim genius (although I think we all have the 'germ' of genius within, waiting to be developed), but value ingenuity in our craft as we engage in discussion. Our sharing of language (logos) is just that,...hence my focus on 'creative dialogue'.

          This space is a canvas, paint as you wish, but know that with each stroke and each syllable we are 'co-creating' with Spirit at every turn,...and all actions, words, thoughts carry their corresponding results or effects. We can co-create anything we like within our powers.

          As far as my 'ingenuity' lying only in my 'Self' or in my own 'beliefs',....well,....as far as I know...there is no reality that can be known or realized apart from my 'Self' (my conscious center), the field and nexus of knowledge. I AM. - this very conscious identity is 'God'. 'God' includes All There Is. This is the truth of 'non-duality' where primal consciousness is at the heart of all, - all is arising in this consciousness, so there is no reality apart from this awareness. This is it (reality itself) - it is clearly being.... prior to any words or concepts,...being What IS.

          Now of course when we discuss various theologies or religious traditions/cults/beliefs/myths, etc... its 'relative'...figurative, metaphoric, conceptual...word-symbols that we relate to and with in any given religious or philosophical context. Hence we use the 'terms' and 'meanings' commonly understood or defined in those particular schools, or religious writings/culture. That's whats cool about studying 'comparative religions', and universal laws and principles, we get the 'bigger picture' and see how all relates having their origin and destiny in a primal unity at the Heart. 'God' is the primal Heart. Hence 'God' is like the Great Central SUN, and all expressions or revelations of 'God' within various religious traditions or schools....are 'rays' of that sun. I could go on, since this is the essence of the Ancient or Perennial Wisdom


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          • #35
            Spoiler
            Last edited by ebenz47037; September 13th, 2015, 09:57 AM. Reason: too big
            Where is the evidence for a global flood?
            E≈mc2
            "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

            "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
            -Bob B.

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            • #36
              Oh. And Freelight is gay.
              Where is the evidence for a global flood?
              E≈mc2
              "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

              "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
              -Bob B.

              Comment


              • #37
                Let's see if I can find a bigger meat image.
                Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                E≈mc2
                "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                -Bob B.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Spoiler
                  Last edited by ebenz47037; September 13th, 2015, 09:56 AM. Reason: too big
                  Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                  E≈mc2
                  "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                  "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                  -Bob B.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Mutual respect as 'earned'......

                    Originally posted by truthjourney View Post

                    Hello freelight. Interesting thread. As I was reading the OP, I was thinking of the first time I ate sushi. I didn't think I would like it. I was aware that it was healthy but it just didn't look very palatable. But once I tried it, it was very tasty and made me feel good.
                    I think spiritual food can be that way. I know that I've had to change my thinking about certain things over the years. I was really depriving myself of good healthy spiritual food. This was hindering my spiritual growth and happiness. It also affected my view of God and others. It was a barrier that I had to overcome. I have made progress but still have a ways to go.

                    Hi tj,

                    Thanks for sharing. It just so happens that in our life-journey we find ourselves changing our minds about certain things when circumstances allow for our experience of those things to teach us something new.

                    Thanks for being kind, courteous and respectful.


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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by freelight View Post
                      Hi tj,

                      Thanks for sharing. It just so happens that in our life-journey we find ourselves changing our minds about certain things when circumstances allow for our experience of those things to teach us something new.

                      Thanks for being kind, courteous and respectful.
                      Good point. Experiences are the best teachers. Some, however, think truth can only be found in the experiences of others captured in miniature snapshots in texts claiming the authority of God.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Eeset View Post

                        Good point. Experiences are the best teachers. Some, however, think truth can only be found in the experiences of others captured in miniature snapshots in texts claiming the authority of God.


                        Sadly seems to be the case (those stuck on believing in the 'inerrancy' or 'infallibility' of a mere 'book'),.....when 'truth' is about the totality of existence, our experience of it, which includes all our relationships in space, and how it unfolds in time. As far as religious texts go,...I enjoy a variety of them from different religious traditions, each have something of interest and value to contribute to the whole.


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                        • #42
                          Spirit alone is life.................

                          Originally posted by Eeset View Post
                          Good point. Experiences are the best teachers. Some, however, think truth can only be found in the experiences of others captured in miniature snapshots in texts claiming the authority of God.
                          "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"

                          Religious writings certainly have their place to guide the intellect along the proper paths to be receptive to the Spirit-power of 'God'.


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                          • #43
                            ECT in the hot seat.....

                            ~*~*~

                            For those interested in my commentaries on 'eternal punishment' of the wicked, or ECT (eternal conscious torment) of souls in hell, see here,...a portal page to a host of informative articles as well. In general I find the teaching to be 'insane' since it violates a few if not more principles of justice, equity and mercy,...while preventing the will of God to be fulfilled, which is ever towards the healing, reformation or restoration of souls. It forever denies love its very heart and will. I think the doctrine has done more harm than good. There is more involved here also where it concerns 'free will', but these require more serious research and deeper reflection. With that, I hope you enjoy considering some of the propositions shared, and question things for yourselves.


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                            • #44
                              More on ECT

                              ~*~*~

                              Well, looks like the latest ECT thread is going down the tubes a bit, with petty banter from meshak's hat, to tit for tat....all the while missing the real language/translation issues behind the word 'aion', its use in ancient times, understanding it in context, and the English translation of these words which stretch meanings out of context.

                              Not necessarily in meshak's defense but somewhat, more going on about the whole ECT bit, I address Sherman on the matter here.

                              Also a post to Chrysostom on 'universal salvation' here. - he insists the ECT supporters want you to suffer,...the irony of that, has subtle sadistic undertones behind some sense of divine justice. The universal law of compensation (karma) resolves somewhat the bold presumption of ECT, but with modifiers.

                              Then, 'Research, ponder and properly contextualize'

                              Time to trim the fat


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                              • #45
                                Rather be gay than a sad individual.....

                                Originally posted by Stripe View Post

                                Oh. And Freelight is gay.
                                Ok, lets entertain this just for fun.....

                                Will put you off 'ignore' just for this round, and you've been reported for trolling my thread here.

                                I'd rather be 'gay' (happy) than depressed, sad, pretentious, sorry or bigoted. As far as me being 'gay',...readers can read my 'report' on this 'claim' in the Woodshed here

                                To reiterate, whether I'm gay, bi, tri, trans or queer....that's irrelevant and none of your business unless I choose to make it your business.

                                If you'd actually like to engage in an intelligent, civil, respectful dialogue, or even in this format a debate of some kind, then you can do that, if you're able. Furthermore, as I shared in my OP, if you can digest it,...take an honest look at your own religious-beliefs, opinions, assumptions, biases and see if there is any merit or imperfection in those, - dare to research and question reality, and your concepts of 'God', 'religion', etc. Here at the café, its allowed or even recommended

                                Have a no holds barred battle with your own assumptions of reality. Do you have the courage to do so?


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