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One on One: Tip toe through the TULIPs with docrob57 and Knight.

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  • #91
    Originally posted by docrob57
    Or perhaps, you really don't understand Calvinism that well. How would you explain this from the Westminster Confession? Are the authors of it Arminians too?
    Answering questions with irrelevant follow-up questions again?

    Knight's question #6 Has God predestined EVERY event, EVERY thought, EVERY - everything - in advance for all of history? YES or NO?
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    • #92
      Originally posted by Knight
      Answering questions with irrelevant follow-up questions again?

      Knight's question #6 Has God predestined EVERY event, EVERY thought, EVERY - everything - in advance for all of history? YES or NO?
      Yes, I answered this by reference to the Westminster confession which I accept. I think I have answered that several times already, however, I admit that it may have been on different threads.
      God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


      A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Knight
        Again.... I believe in my heart and have confessed with my mouth that the Lord Jesus died for my sin and that He rose on the third day.
        Knight's question #7 What gives you the right to assert that I am not saved? What is you rational (or defense) for such an assertion?
        I did not assert that you are not saved. I said that I was concerned that you may not be, though I probably didn't say that very politely. However, as this is the home of the truthsmack, I felt it was appropriate.

        The problem is that you attribute your belief and confession to yourself. Much worse, however, you also indicate that it is at least theoretically possible for someone to save himself due to what you see as the elimination of an inherited sin nature at the crucifixion. This belief renders the atonement a mere "nicety," something that we can use if we need it but not really necessary. That is the really bad part.
        God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


        A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by docrob57
          Yes, I answered this by reference to the Westminster confession which I accept. I think I have answered that several times already, however, I admit that it may have been on different threads.
          Hmmmm lets see......

          Knight's question #6 Has God predestined EVERY event, EVERY thought, EVERY - everything - in advance for all of history? YES or NO?

          Doc's answer: God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

          So... is that a YES or a NO? Looks like both to me.

          YES: God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass

          NO: neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away

          How about we try again and you give me a YES or a NO. Why is that so hard?

          Knight's question #6 Has God predestined EVERY event, EVERY thought, EVERY - everything - in advance for all of history? YES or NO?
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          • #95
            Originally posted by docrob57
            I did not assert that you are not saved. I said that I was concerned that you may not be, though I probably didn't say that very politely. However, as this is the home of the truthsmack, I felt it was appropriate.

            The problem is that you attribute your belief and confession to yourself. Much worse, however, you also indicate that it is at least theoretically possible for someone to save himself due to what you see as the elimination of an inherited sin nature at the crucifixion. This belief renders the atonement a mere "nicety," something that we can use if we need it but not really necessary. That is the really bad part.
            I simply believe the words of the Bible instead of the words of Docrob.

            Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

            The Bible says that IF man believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth he will be saved by God.

            You assert man cannot do that.

            I proudly reject your assertion.
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            • #96
              Originally posted by Knight
              I simply believe the words of the Bible instead of the words of Docrob.

              Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

              The Bible says that IF man believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth he will be saved by God.

              You assert man cannot do that.

              I proudly reject your assertion.
              And your pride, it it is not overcome, is what will doom your eternity.
              God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


              A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Knight
                Hmmmm lets see......

                Knight's question #6 Has God predestined EVERY event, EVERY thought, EVERY - everything - in advance for all of history? YES or NO?

                Doc's answer: God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

                So... is that a YES or a NO? Looks like both to me.

                YES: God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass

                NO: neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away

                How about we try again and you give me a YES or a NO. Why is that so hard?

                Knight's question #6 Has God predestined EVERY event, EVERY thought, EVERY - everything - in advance for all of history? YES or NO?
                Again, my answer is yes, the reasoning is at #82.
                God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


                A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by docrob57
                  And your pride, it it is not overcome, is what will doom your eternity.
                  Ohhhhh..... kay......... Does that come from the gospel of Docrob?
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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Knight
                    Ohhhhh..... kay......... :kokkoo: Does that come from the gospel of Docrob?
                    No that comes from the Gospel, which ultimately you reject because you insist that you are the key actor in your salvation. It amzes me how quickly you result to infantilism in your arguments.

                    If you don't want to discuss these things don't! It's your website! If you do, then just stick to your arguments and drop all the sophomoric stuff.
                    God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


                    A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by docrob57
                      Again, my answer is yes, the reasoning is at #82.
                      That's better, that wasn't so hard was it?

                      So you acknowledge that God has predestined EVERY event, EVERY thought, EVERY - everything - in advance for all of history. That being the case where does man's freewill come into play?

                      Take an event - any event. Let's say... me going to the store today to pick up a turkey for Thanksgiving. You assert that event was ordained a millennia ago by God. It wasn't my choice to go to the store it was God's choice. God picked out my turkey and my wine that I bought at the liquor store. Nothing I did today was out of the scope of God meticulous planning a millennia ago (according to you). Where does freewill come into play? What part of my day and my subsequent decisions throughout the day were free?
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                      • Originally posted by Knight
                        That's better, that wasn't so hard was it?

                        So you acknowledge that God has predestined EVERY event, EVERY thought, EVERY - everything - in advance for all of history. That being the case where does man's freewill come into play?

                        Take an event - any event. Let's say... me going to the store today to pick up a turkey for Thanksgiving. You assert that event was ordained a millennia ago by God. It wasn't my choice to go to the store it was God's choice. God picked out my turkey and my wine that I bought at the liquor store. Nothing I did today was out of the scope of God meticulous planning a millennia ago (according to you). Where does freewill come into play? What part of my day and my subsequent decisions throughout the day were free?
                        I always love how you mock God's power and are then appalled when someone questions your salvation.

                        Anyway, as usual, you have misunderstood (lest I not be perceived as boastful, were it not for God I would misunderstand too). It is your choice within boundaries beyond which you cannot venture. It is sort of like a roach that is trapped in a shoe box.
                        God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


                        A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by docrob57
                          No that comes from the Gospel, which ultimately you reject because you insist that you are the key actor in your salvation. It amzes me how quickly you result to infantilism in your arguments.

                          If you don't want to discuss these things don't! It's your website! If you do, then just stick to your arguments and drop all the sophomoric stuff.


                          What part of the gospel Doc? Don't just say it... show it! What part of the gospel states that if a man believes in his heart the Lord Jesus died for him and has confessed with his mouth might not be saved?
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                          • Originally posted by docrob57
                            I always love how you mock God's power and are then appalled when someone questions your salvation.

                            Anyway, as usual, you have misunderstood (lest I not be perceived as boastful, were it not for God I would misunderstand too). It is your choice within boundaries beyond which you cannot venture. It is sort of like a roach that is trapped in a shoe box.
                            Doc, instead of simply slinging insults why don't you respond to my posts????
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                            • Originally posted by Knight
                              Doc, instead of simply slinging insults why don't you respond to my posts????
                              That was my response. I suggested a format to avoid this conclusion, but we have deviated from it.
                              God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


                              A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by docrob57
                                That was my response. I suggested a format to avoid this conclusion, but we have deviated from it.
                                We? You got a mouse in your pocket.
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                                TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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