One-on-One: AMR and God's Truth — The Holy Trinity

Ask Mr. Religion · Dec 10, 2013

God's Truth said:
I do sometimes choose a scripture that is worded more profoundly.
… I have never even heard of TNIV.
… Weymouth is a good translation that I have seen.
… It is not a crime to use translation that is worded somewhat clearer.

How are you picking verses then? At random? You clearly chose a specific TNIV verse (2 Corinthians 3:18). And how would you know WNT is a good translation? How do you determine a translation is worded somewhat clearer? Do you choose translations that line up with your position?

You can use whatever translation you want, GT. In all your posts you have never once made reference to the translations you are quoting. Since you do not stick to one translation, it would be useful for you to at least note that you are picking and choosing various translations so we all do not have to search out the particular translations you are relying upon.

God's Truth said:
The scriptures on this site are set for NKJV.

You can force the verse pop up at this site to render the translation you are using, GT. See bibleref tag section explained here.

God's Truth said:
You are not saying something that no one knows.

You are missing the point with all the statements of yours about how I am telling you nothing you do not know. The point is I am hoping you will learn how proper exposition and exegesis of Scripture is to be done. When may I expect to see something similar from you in defense of your positions?

God's Truth said:
The Lord is called the Spirit.
Instead of you accepting the truth, you proceed with trying to make others believe the scripture does not say what it does.

I explained the verses in detail and all you have in response is the same statement you made when originally quoting the verses I then explained to you? GT, you simply are not taking this One-on-One seriously. How do you expect the discussion to move forward when you will not advance the discussion?

God's Truth said:
Ask Mr. Religion said:

Here is Paul's brief means of directing us to the Lord of the new covenant of the Holy Spirit of our living God who gives life[/1], and freedom and unveiling (see 2 Corinthians 3:3, 6, 17-18). As a new minister of the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6) Paul declares himself a representative new covenant member, being given a heart of flesh since the Spirit of God has removed the tablets of stone (2 Corinthians 3:3). Given this, Paul can speak not only as apostle (2 Corinthians 3:4-6) but also as a representative of all persons of the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:12,18). Paul is no longer veiled under the old covenant in which he once lived (2 Corinthians 3:14-15; 5:16-17). Persons of the new covenant, now unveiled though Jesus Christ, are now being transformed by the Spirit of God into the image of Christ.

Click to expand...

You are merely repeating what the scriptures say. You are not explaining anything.

I am explaining the meaning of the two verses from 1 Corinthians, verses 17, and 18, that you found in hopes to support your position. The process is known as exposition followed by exegesis.

God's Truth said:

Ask Mr. Religion said:

Now we examine 2 Corinthians 3:17, "the Lord is the Spirit"…

As we will see this phrase is not pneumatological ("Jesus" equals "Spirit") as GT would like it to be, but Christological. No, the first phrase the Lord is the Spirit is not teaching that the "Lord" in the phrase is "the Spirit" in the phrase. Examination of the second phrase the Spirit of the Lord makes it clear that "the Lord" that we turn to and "the Spirit of the Lord" are distinguished from one other-two different persons. He to whom we turn is Jesus Christ, so the Spirit of the Lord is Jesus Christ's "Spirit", who is the Spirit of the living God referred to in 2 Corinthians 3:3. From Romans 8:9-10 we clearly see the "Spirit of Christ" is the Spirit of God.

Click to expand...

The scriptures are speaking of the Lord, and the Spirit. That is what the scriptures are saying plainly and clearly. The scriptures plainly and clearly say twice that the Lord is the Spirit.

You have now twisted the scripture that plainly and clearly says the Lord is the Spirit. You have twisted it to say the Spirit of the Lord. What you did is reprehensible.

Click to expand...

I have showed you what 1 Corinthians 3:17,18 are speaking about. You are offering nothing to demonstrate error in my explication of these two verses. Just saying "it is not so" is not a defense of your views.

God's Truth said:

The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are the same Spirit.
There is only One Spirit.
See Ephesians 4:4, and Ephesians 2:18.

Click to expand...

I have already pointed out your method of moving on to new verses when you cannot defend my answers to previous verses you use. When you are ready to explain these two verses, not just quote them, I will be happy to discuss them in detail with you, GT . I am not going to continue to carry the burden of this discussion while you simply list Scripture verses and then fold your arms as if you have actually accomplished something here. Some hints for you follow. To properly understand "one Spirit" in Ephesians 2:18, back up two verses and then see Ephesians 4:4. Now at Ephesians 4:4 see Ephesians 1:23, 1 Corinthians 12:13, and Romans 8:9.

God's Truth said:

The three are One and the same.
You referenced 2 Corinthians 3:6. However, to prove to you that the three are One and the same study more carefully these scriptures:
The Spirit gives life, 2 Corinthians 3:6
God gives life see John 5:21.
Jesus gives life see John 5:21.

Click to expand...

John 5:21 is a parallelism illustrating the self-disclosure of God the Father in God the Son. As we read in 2 Kings 5:7 the Jews understood well that God the Father could raise the dead. God the Father is fully God. The parallelism in John 5:21 drives home the fact that Jesus of Nazareth, a man who walked the streets of Palestine, is also fully God. The Holy Spirit gives life, for it is the Holy Spirit who is the agent of the resurrection of the spiritually dead to reborn life. These three persons (subsistences) are not dividing God's essence into three equal portions to make three gods. Rather, each of these persons fully partake of the one essence of God.

God's Truth said:

Ask Mr. Religion said:

Jesus Christ of the Scriptures is met by the believer. Paul's view is the Lord to be the Spirit at work illuminating believers of proper understanding of God's revelation. That is, through the Word, the Holy Spirit changes the heart of a person, leading him the freedom in Jesus Christ.

Click to expand...

Be careful that you do not get into Calvinism here.

Click to expand...

I see. Since you obviously cannot defend your views, you resort to toadying to the crowd with "Calvinism!" in hopes to deflect attention elsewhere. This topic is not specific to Calvinism, GT. It is specific to all of Christianity.

God's Truth said:

Ask Mr. Religion said:

In fact, using a wee bit different phraseology, Paul says the same thing elsewhere:

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:1-2)

We also have the testimony of the Scriptures in our support here teaching us that Jesus Christ is the giver of the Spirit, John 4:14; 7:37-39; 15:26; 16:7; 19:30; Acts 2:33, and that the Spirit is given as a result of hearing the Good News, Acts 10:44; 19:2; Gal 3:1-5; Eph 1:13.

Click to expand...

God sends the Holy Spirit
Galatians 4:6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." And John 14:26.
Jesus sends the Holy Spirit.
Luke 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." And John 15:26; 16:7.

Click to expand...

I have already discussed the procession (the filioque) of the Holy Spirit by the Father and the Son, GT. Your observations only support my claims that the Holy Spirit, by virtue of the filioque is distinguished from the Father and the Son!

God's Truth said:

Ask Mr. Religion said:

The "which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit" from GT's translation preference or even the NASB's "Just as from the Lord, that is, the Spirit" has only four Greek works in the underlying text:

Click to expand...

Stop writing so much. You think that with all your talk you can justify the twisting of the scriptures. You will be held accountable to God for what you are doing.
Again, the scriptures PLAINLY AND CLEARLY SAYS the Lord is the Spirit.
The scriptures also say what you do not, and that is God gives the Spirit, and Jesus gives the Spirit.

… This is just more useless ramblings.

Click to expand...

I have been saying throughout this discussion, GT, that you are not able to defend your views. "Stop writing so much" proves my point. Please review my examination of the passage you disagree with and point out its errors. All your shouting (all caps), hands-over-ears, eye-squinting, "stop writing so much!" won't make me go away or improve your miserable defense of your anti-Trinity heresy.

God's Truth said:

Be quiet. You have not shown anything, except that you distort the truth.

Click to expand...

Are you done with this discussion, GT?

God's Truth said:

The body is made a live by receiving its soul; it then becomes a living body.
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Click to expand...

You are merely quoting a verse I actually explained, GT. You have added nothing to the argument. Engage the arguments I am presenting in defense of the Triune Godhead or recognize that you have no real defense for your views.

God's Truth said:

The scriptures plainly and clearly say God has a soul. That soul is Jesus Christ whom existed before coming to earth.
(Leviticus 26:11) (Leviticus 26:30) (Isaiah 42:1) (Zechariah 11:8) (Matthew 12:18) (Hebrews 10:38)

Click to expand...

GT, you posted these same verses here and I have already adequately responded to them here. Jesus Christ is not God's soul. Yikes, is there no end to your odd views? You are all twisted up in overly literal readings of Scripture and it shows. You are in desperate need of proper instruction in how to study the Scriptures. I suspect that if you would humbly admit this, then you would soon shed yourself of these errors.

God's Truth said:

Ask Mr. Religion said:

Finally, using John 17:5 GT suggests the claim that since Jesus possessed "glory" before the world began then He must have possessed a glorified body, just like the one's the saints will have come the eschaton. But, once more, this is an example of GT's inability to properly interpret Scripture. The context of the passage in question is the humiliation of God the Son in the incarnation, in that He was brought low from the fullness of His pre-incarnation glory. The passage has absolutely nothing to do with glorified bodies pre-existing the incarnation.

Click to expand...

Jesus plainly and clearly says with the same glory he had with God before the world began.

Click to expand...

GT, we all know the words being used in a verse, but we all do not know what they mean. This is the point of proper interpretation of Scripture. I have provided proper interpretation. You have not. When are you going to start carrying your portion of the burden of defending your views?

Ask Mr. Religion · Dec 11, 2013

GT,

Your logomacy concerning my use of the word essence as in “the essence of God” has not gone unnoticed. I am hoping that as the discussion has been proceeding you are perhaps picking up on some new concepts and vocabularies that will help overcome your resistance.

An essence is simply something with characteristics — that is, an entity about which something can be said. God is a simple and uncompounded spiritual being. We can say the same by stating, God is a simple and uncompounded spiritual essence. Essence is that by which something is what it is—its nature. The word “essence” used of God, signifies the divine nature with all its attributes, which exists but once in the Three Persons.

Admittedly, the traditional language used in theology proper can often be confusing. Consistent use of these words and phrases is paramount, e.g., ousia and hypostasis, nature and person, essence and substance. Respectively, these words all convey much the same distinctions.

It bears repeating that a divine person is not the same thing as a human individual. A person (or the theological term, hypostasis) is a distinct bearer of an essence. God is one in essence, and three in person. The words essence and person have special meanings when used in the context of the doctrine of God. Do not mistakenly assume that the contemporary meaning of some words we use, such as “person” has the same meaning when used in theology proper. This is the most common source of error in understanding this doctrine. The word "Person" has unfortunately became overtaken by contemporary meanings, versus what the word means within the doctrine of the Trinity.

Furthermore, the personal subsistences of the Trinity are not three separate divine essences. Instead they are co-equal and co-sharers of the one divine essence of God. Within the Godhead there are not three individuals alongside of, and separate from, one another, but three personal self-distinctions within the single divine essence, i.e., three distinctive subsistences.

Who the one God is does not exist independently along with the three Persons. The divine essence has no existence outside of and apart from the three Persons. For if the divine essence did, there would be no true unity, but a division that would lead into tetratheism.

John Feinberg notes:

“the three persons (hypostaseis / prosopoi) coinhering in the one divine nature (ousia) exist simultaneously with one another as distinct subsistences or persons. This means that the divine essence is not at one time entirely manifest as the Father (but not in or as the Son or Spirit), and then at another moment manifest exclusively as the Son, and yet again at another time solely as the Spirit. Rather, all three persons . . . exist simultaneously” (Src:No One Like Him).

Applied to the Trinity, what this means is that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct persons, each with his own personal attributes, while each also shares equally the attributes of deity, a so-called homoousian identity in divine essence). There never was a time when the Father was not the Father; never a time when the Son was not the Son; never a time when the Spirit was not the Spirit.

Moreover, these three persons are always like-minded. In John 5:16-19 we find the best insight on the like-mindedness of the persons of the Trinity. After making it clear that He was equal to God the Father, Jesus expands upon the statement by noting that there is no competition between Father and Son, which the Jews had wrongfully assumed from the claims Jesus was making. Jesus teaches us that all His actions are in perfect agreement with the Father. A point made even more direct later in John 10:30. When our Lord states "He who has seen Me has seen the Father", the implication is not that Jesus is the Father, but that there is a unity even beyond intentions or purposes between Father and Son, a unity such that the Son reveals the Father (see John 1:18).

In a previous post I have discussed the Lord’s baptismal formula within the Great Commission as one of the most explicit examples from Scripture of the Triune Godhead. If you will examine it carefully you will see that it does not say “in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” This sort of rendering would suggest modalism, wherein God assumes different masks if each of these named persons depending upon various divine activities. But close examination of the text shows that a definite article appears before each of the persons of the Trinity: “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” The definite article protects us from modalistic heresies by teaching the fact that there are three distinct persons in the Godhead.

The same baptismal formula also does not read “in the names of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” There is only a singular “name” of the three that distinguishes their unity. The Scriptural singular “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” ensures we do not overlook what we are taught from the Shema in the Old Testament—Christianity does not believe we worship three Gods, for there is but one God. This has been one of your frequent misrepresentations of Trinitarianism, GT, and I am hoping from this discussion that you will consider the fact that perhaps you have not understood Trinitarian concepts.

AMR

God's Truth · Dec 11, 2013

Ask Mr. Religion said:
How are you picking verses then? At random? You clearly chose a specific TNIV verse (2 Corinthians 3:18). And how would you know WNT is a good translation? How do you determine a translation is worded somewhat clearer? Do you choose translations that line up with your position?

I choose a translation that says what I know is clearer.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
You can use whatever translation you want, GT. In all your posts you have never once made reference to the translations you are quoting. Since you do not stick to one translation, it would be useful for you to at least note that you are picking and choosing various translations so we all do not have to search out the particular translations you are relying upon.

You can use whatever translation you want to use. You do not have to use the ones I use.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
You can force the verse pop up at this site to render the translation you are using, GT. See bibleref tag section explained here.

I know I can. It does not have the Weymouth and Aramaic, however.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
You are missing the point with all the statements of yours about how I am telling you nothing you do not know. The point is I am hoping you will learn how proper exposition and exegesis of Scripture is to be done. When may I expect to see something similar from you in defense of your positions?

You write too much. I do not need to learn your doctrine. I already know it. What you are doing is not debating.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
I explained the verses in detail and all you have in response is the same statement you made when originally quoting the verses I then explained to you? GT, you simply are not taking this One-on-One seriously. How do you expect the discussion to move forward when you will not advance the discussion?

I am taking this debate seriously.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
I am explaining the meaning of the two verses from 1 Corinthians, verses 17, and 18, that you found in hopes to support your position. The process is known as exposition followed by exegesis.

You twisted the scriptures.
The scriptures do not say what you say they say.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
I have showed you what 1 Corinthians 3:17,18 are speaking about. You are offering nothing to demonstrate error in my explication of these two verses. Just saying "it is not so" is not a defense of your views.

You do not say what the scriptures say, and that is easy to see.

The scriptures say the Lord is the Spirit.

You twisted it and said it does not say the Lord is the Spirit.

You said it says the Spirit is the Lord's Spirit.
Now the readers can see for themselves.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Read what the scriptures plainly and clearly say. Do not twist God’s Truth and claim it says what it does not.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
I have already pointed out your method of moving on to new verses when you cannot defend my answers to previous verses you use. When you are ready to explain these two verses, not just quote them, I will be happy to discuss them in detail with you, GT . I am not going to continue to carry the burden of this discussion while you simply list Scripture verses and then fold your arms as if you have actually accomplished something here. Some hints for you follow. To properly understand "one Spirit" in Ephesians 2:18, back up two verses and then see Ephesians 4:4. Now at Ephesians 4:4 see Ephesians 1:23, 1 Corinthians 12:13, and Romans 8:9.

Just believe what is written. Just believe the scriptures.
There is one Spirit.

Did you go to a school that said do not trust the scriptures? Did your schools tell you that the scriptures do not really mean what they say?

Ask Mr. Religion said:
John 5:21 is a parallelism illustrating the self-disclosure of God the Father in God the Son. As we read in 2 Kings 5:7 the Jews understood well that God the Father could raise the dead. God the Father is fully God. The parallelism in John 5:21 drives home the fact that Jesus of Nazareth, a man who walked the streets of Palestine, is also fully God. The Holy Spirit gives life, for it is the Holy Spirit who is the agent of the resurrection of the spiritually dead to reborn life. These three persons (subsistences) are not dividing God's essence into three equal portions to make three gods. Rather, each of these persons fully partake of the one essence of God.

There is One Spirit.
God is Spirit.
Jesus is Spirit.
They are the same Holy Spirit.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
I see. Since you obviously cannot defend your views, you resort to toadying to the crowd with "Calvinism!" in hopes to deflect attention elsewhere. This topic is not specific to Calvinism, GT. It is specific to all of Christianity.

You are a Calvinist. That shows you have fallen for a false doctrine, and you will not listen to reason about that, so why would you listen to any other correction about any of your other false doctrines?

Ask Mr. Religion said:
I have been saying throughout this discussion, GT, that you are not able to defend your views. "Stop writing so much" proves my point. Please review my examination of the passage you disagree with and point out its errors. All your shouting (all caps), hands-over-ears, eye-squinting, "stop writing so much!" won't make me go away or improve your miserable defense of your anti-Trinity heresy.

All caps do not always mean shouting. I thought you were an educated man.
You do write too much. You just wasted much of my time reading through your nonsense complaining.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
Are you done with this discussion, GT?

You would like me to be.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
GT, you posted these same verses here and I have already adequately responded to them here. Jesus Christ is not God's soul. Yikes, is there no end to your odd views? You are all twisted up in overly literal readings of Scripture and it shows. You are in desperate need of proper instruction in how to study the Scriptures. I suspect that if you would humbly admit this, then you would soon shed yourself of these errors.

So then, you say that Jesus is not God in the Old Testament. When does Jesus become God in your view? I thought you believed Jesus was God come in the flesh?

Ask Mr. Religion said:
GT, we all know the words being used in a verse, but we all do not know what they mean. This is the point of proper interpretation of Scripture. I have provided proper interpretation. You have not. When are you going to start carrying your portion of the burden of defending your views?

Start by quoting me and not yourself.

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

Ask Mr. Religion said:
GT,

Your logomacy concerning my use of the word essence as in “the essence of God” has not gone unnoticed. I am hoping that as the discussion has been proceeding you are perhaps picking up on some new concepts and vocabularies that will help overcome your resistance.

An essence is simply something with characteristics —

Try to retain what I have already told you. Is your memory deteriorating?

I said I know what essence means. It can mean Spirit. As I have said before, use what the written Word says, and use the word ‘Spirit’ and not ‘essence’.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
that is, an entity about which something can be said. God is a simple and uncompounded spiritual being. We can say the same by stating, God is a simple and uncompounded spiritual essence. Essence is that by which something is what it is—its nature. The word “essence” used of God, signifies the divine nature with all its attributes, which exists but once in the Three Persons.

That is good, I have gotten you to admit that truth that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have the same Spirit, and since they have the same Spirit, they are the same.

Jesus says the flesh accounts for nothing, and the words he speaks are Spirit. Jesus is Spirit.

Jesus is the Holy Spirit. There is only One Spirit.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
Admittedly, the traditional language used in theology proper can often be confusing. Consistent use of these words and phrases is paramount, e.g., ousia and hypostasis, nature and person, essence and substance. Respectively, these words all convey much the same distinctions.

It bears repeating that a divine person is not the same thing as a human individual. A person (or the theological term, hypostasis) is a distinct bearer of an essence. God is one in essence, and three in person. The words essence and person have special meanings when used in the context of the doctrine of God. Do not mistakenly assume that the contemporary meaning of some words we use, such as “person” has the same meaning when used in theology proper. This is the most common source of error in understanding this doctrine. The word "Person" has unfortunately became overtaken by contemporary meanings, versus what the word means within the doctrine of the Trinity.

Again, your trinity doctrine says the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Jesus, and the Spirit of the Son are not the same Spirit; however, you now go against your trinity doctrine and admit that they are all the same Spirit. That is advancement to the truth.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
Furthermore, the personal subsistences of the Trinity are not three separate divine essences. Instead they are co-equal and co-sharers of the one divine essence of God. Within the Godhead there are not three individuals alongside of, and separate from, one another, but three personal self-distinctions within the single divine essence, i.e., three distinctive subsistences.

Good for you, you just went against the trinity doctrine again. You said they are not separate. The trinity doctrine says they are separate.
At least now you are changing the trinity doctrine that says ‘essence’ into the actual essence, which is ‘Spirit’.

Again, you have admitted that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Jesus are all the same Spirit.

Let the Reader know that AMR is coming along to admitting the truth.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
Applied to the Trinity, what this means is that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct persons, each with his own personal attributes, while each also shares equally the attributes of deity, a so-called homoousian identity in divine essence).

Now, you go back to saying they are different. You do not even know that you constantly contradict yourself.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
There never was a time when the Father was not the Father; never a time when the Son was not the Son; never a time when the Spirit was not the Spirit.

The Son is God. There is only One God, and He is the Father

Ask Mr. Religion said:
This has been one of your frequent misrepresentations of Trinitarianism, GT, and I am hoping from this discussion that you will consider the fact that perhaps you have not understood Trinitarian concepts.

I definitely understand the trinity doctrine, and it is FALSE. The trinitarians say thier doctrine is unexplainable. Jesus says to be ready to give an answer. You are not ready to give an answer. In fact, you will never have the answer…according to what your doctrine says.

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

AMR, I am going to ask you some questions, and I want you to answer the questions with either God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Do not write anything else.

Who gives life?

Who makes intercession for us?

By whom do we gain access to the Father?

Who lives inside believers, and how?

Who pours out the Spirit and how?

Whose commands are we given?

Who sends the Spirit?

Whom do we live through?

Who circumcises our hearts?

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

The scriptures plainly and clearly say God has a soul. That soul is Jesus Christ whom existed before coming to earth.
(Leviticus 26:11) (Leviticus 26:30) (Isaiah 42:1) (Zechariah 11:8) (Matthew 12:18) (Hebrews 10:38)

Ask Mr. Religion said:
GT, you posted these same verses here and I have already adequately responded to them here. Jesus Christ is not God's soul. Yikes, is there no end to your odd views? You are all twisted up in overly literal readings of Scripture and it shows. You are in desperate need of proper instruction in how to study the Scriptures. I suspect that if you would humbly admit this, then you would soon shed yourself of these errors.

No, AMR, do not just deny what I said, prove it that I am wrong. The scriptures say God has a soul. Tell me why here how and why that is not speaking of Jesus in those scriptures.

Ask Mr. Religion · Dec 12, 2013

God's Truth said:
The scriptures plainly and clearly say God has a soul. That soul is Jesus Christ whom existed before coming to earth.
(Leviticus 26:11) (Leviticus 26:30) (Isaiah 42:1) (Zechariah 11:8) (Matthew 12:18) (Hebrews 10:38)

No, AMR, do not just deny what I said, prove it that I am wrong. The scriptures say God has a soul. Tell me why here how and why that is not speaking of Jesus in those scriptures.

GT,

Go back and review the content you claim is too much to read for you. I have already answered the question.

Ask Mr. Religion · Dec 12, 2013

I am grouping GT’s idea of what constitutes a defense of her position immediately below:

God's Truth said:
You write too much. I do not need to learn your doctrine. I already know it. What you are doing is not debating.
I am taking this debate seriously.
You twisted the scriptures.
The scriptures do not say what you say they say.
You do not say what the scriptures say, and that is easy to see.
The scriptures say the Lord is the Spirit.
You twisted it and said it does not say the Lord is the Spirit.
You said it says the Spirit is the Lord's Spirit.
Now the readers can see for themselves.
Just believe what is written. Just believe the scriptures.
Did you go to a school that said do not trust the scriptures?
Did your schools tell you that the scriptures do not really mean what they say?
All caps do not always mean shouting. I thought you were an educated man.
You do write too much.
You just wasted much of my time reading through your nonsense complaining.

God's Truth said:
2 Corinthians 3:17; 2 Corinthians 3:18
Read what the scriptures plainly and clearly say. Do not twist God’s Truth and claim it says what it does not.

GT,

These verses have been shown to not support your position. Why merely repeat them once again?

God's Truth said:
So then, you say that Jesus is not God in the Old Testament. When does Jesus become God in your view? I thought you believed Jesus was God come in the flesh?

Christ is not God’s soul, GT. See my previous discussion. How can you not see the oddness of your views?

AMR

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>HE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w

ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

Ask Mr. Religion said:
GT,

Go back and review the content you claim is too much to read for you. I have already answered the question.

No. Explain it here plainly and clearly. I did not find it in your previous post. If you have the truth, repeat it, as I have many times.

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

Ask Mr. Religion said:
I am grouping GT’s idea of what constitutes a defense of her position immediately below:

GT,

These verses have been shown to not support your position. Why merely repeat them once again?

The scriptures plainly and clearly say the Lord is the Spirit.

The scriptures do NOT say what you claim they say. They do not say the Spirit is the Lord's.

You have twisted God's written word.

Ask Mr. Religion said:
Christ is not God’s soul, GT. See my previous discussion. How can you not see the oddness of your views?

This is a debate. Answer right here and now how those scriptures are not speaking of Jesus' soul.

Ask Mr. Religion · Dec 12, 2013

God's Truth said:
AMR, I am going to ask you some questions, and I want you to answer the questions with either God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Do not write anything else.

Are you actually dictating terms, GT? When you earn the privilege by contributing substantively you might be able to do so.

Who gives life? John 5:21
Who makes intercession for us? Romans 8:26-27;34
By whom do we gain access to the Father? Ephesians 2:18
Who lives inside believers, and how? Romans 8:9
Who pours out the Spirit and how? Acts 2:17
Whose commands are we given? Revelation 22:14

Who sends the Spirit? Acts 2:17
Whom do we live through? 1 John 4:9
Who circumcises our hearts? Romans 2:29
Who raised Jesus from the dead? Acts 3:15

Anytime you are willing to explain what these verses mean and conclusions you draw from them, let me know.

AMR
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>HE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w

ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

Ask Mr. Religion · Dec 12, 2013

God's Truth said:
No. Explain it here plainly and clearly. I did not find it in your previous post.

Use your browser's search function for the word "soul".

God's Truth said:
If you have the truth, repeat it, as I have many times.

No, all you have repeated is plain to see as I am grouping your repetitive naked assertions together. Contend with the Scriptures versus merely quoting them or repeating your personal mantras. You are wasting everyone's time, GT.

AMR

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

Ask Mr. Religion said:
Use your browser's search function for the word "soul".

No, all you have repeated is plain to see as I am grouping your repetitive naked assertions together. Contend with the Scriptures versus merely quoting them or repeating your personal mantras. You are wasting everyone's time, GT.

AMR

You cannot answer the question, or else you would.

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

Ask Mr. Religion said:

Are you actually dictating terms, GT? When you earn the privilege by contributing substantively you might be able to do so.

Who gives life? John 5:21
Who makes intercession for us? Romans 8:26-27;34
By whom do we gain access to the Father? Ephesians 2:18
Who lives inside believers, and how? Romans 8:9
Who pours out the Spirit and how? Acts 2:17
Whose commands are we given? Revelation 22:14
Who sends the Spirit? Acts 2:17
Whom do we live through? 1 John 4:9
Who circumcises our hearts? Romans 2:29
Who raised Jesus from the dead? Acts 3:15

Anytime you are willing to explain what these verses mean and conclusions you draw from them, let me know.

AMR

Now, do it over and do it as I have asked.

AMR, I am going to ask you some questions, and I want you to answer the questions with either God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Do not write anything else.

Who gives life?

Who makes intercession for us?

By whom do we gain access to the Father?

Who lives inside believers, and how?

Who pours out the Spirit and how?

Whose commands are we given?

Who sends the Spirit?

Whom do we live through?

Who circumcises our hearts?

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

Ask Mr. Religion said:

Are you actually dictating terms, GT? When you earn the privilege by contributing substantively you might be able to do so.

Who gives life? John 5:21
Who makes intercession for us? Romans 8:26-27;34
By whom do we gain access to the Father? Ephesians 2:18
Who lives inside believers, and how? Romans 8:9
Who pours out the Spirit and how? Acts 2:17
Whose commands are we given? Revelation 22:14
Who sends the Spirit? Acts 2:17
Whom do we live through? 1 John 4:9
Who circumcises our hearts? Romans 2:29
Who raised Jesus from the dead? Acts 3:15

Anytime you are willing to explain what these verses mean and conclusions you draw from them, let me know.

AMR

You have answered most of these questions incorrectly.

Ask Mr. Religion · Dec 12, 2013

God's Truth said:
You have answered most of these questions incorrectly.

Then by all means provide correction. I am waiting.
This discussion formally ends today as there is a two week limit set by Knight. You have not been a good steward of the time God has afforded you to glorify Him in this debate. Make haste now and prepare your final remarks. Do you want the last word in this debate or shall I await your final remarks? Let me know, please.

AMR

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

Ask Mr. Religion said:
Then by all means provide correction. I am waiting.
This discussion formally ends today as there is a two week limit set by Knight. You have not been a good steward of the time God has afforded you to glorify Him in this debate. Make haste now and prepare your final remarks. Do you want the last word in this debate or shall I await your final remarks? Let me know, please.

AMR

Now, do it over and do it as I have asked, or admit you are too afraid to show everyone that you do not know the full answers.

AMR, I am going to ask you some questions, and I want you to answer the questions with either God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Do not write anything else.

Who gives life?

Who makes intercession for us?

By whom do we gain access to the Father?

Who lives inside believers, and how?

Who pours out the Spirit and how?

Whose commands are we given?

Who sends the Spirit?

Whom do we live through?

Who circumcises our hearts?

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

P.S. I could not care less about you judgment of me or this debate.

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

AMR did not reply in a timely manner, he took a long time to reply, even though he was logged on and seen in other threads. He also did not answer questions when asked.

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

There is only One God, and He is the Father.
If Jesus is God, and he is, then he is also the Father.
There are three, and the three are One and the same.

The trinity doctrine is false, as it makes three different Gods.

The trinity doctrine says there is a God the Father, another God the Son, and another God the Holy Spirit.

God is Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.

Jesus is the Spirit.

God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three, and the three are One and the same Spirit, One and the same God.

God the Father is Spirit

John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

The Holy Spirit is Spirit.

Mark 1:8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

2 Corinthians 3:17, 18 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

God's Truth · Dec 12, 2013

God says that people will call Jesus God, Father, and the Holy Spirit, and that is what I call him.

Isaiah 9:6 HCSB For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

One-on-One: AMR and God's Truth — The Holy Trinity

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

New member

New member

New member

New member

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

New member

New member

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

New member

New member

New member

&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;&#9758;Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

New member

New member

New member

New member

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9