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  • #76
    Originally posted by fanci View Post
    You have a valid point. And I may be mixing concepts into a moral Long island... However I do feel that many (I wouldn't go so far as to say most, but many) religious laws are laws that teach us to show love for one another. We are not showing love for our neighbor or our God who commands is to love if we are sleeping with those neighbors' wives and then lying to the judge about it.
    However if we are following Gods law we will be showing respect and care for God and others. While love may be more than respect and care, those are the most teachable aspects.

    Also the only civil/government laws I am referring to are the most basic laws that simply imply respect of one another such as theft, murder, assault, harassment, etc.



    Peace be with you.
    The laws may overlap, but I think the intent behind them often differs. We have civil laws against murder to establish and maintain the citizen's right to life (basic to civil peace). We have religious laws against murder because "God said so" (obedience to God). And the general 'law of love' forbids murder because murder is the opposite of an expression of love.

    The law is the same, but the ethical imperative it's representing in each case is somewhat different. And the reason I think this is important to note, is to show that civil law is not necessarily moral, nor religiously inspired. While not all religious laws are loving, or beneficial to civil society.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by PureX View Post
      The laws may overlap, but I think the intent behind them often differs. We have civil laws against murder to establish and maintain the citizen's right to life (basic to civil peace). We have religious laws against murder because "God said so" (obedience to God). And the general 'law of love' forbids murder because murder is the opposite of an expression of love.



      The law is the same, but the ethical imperative it's representing in each case is somewhat different. And the reason I think this is important to note, is to show that civil law is not necessarily moral, nor religiously inspired. While not all religious laws are loving, or beneficial to civil society.

      Very well said and thank you for a good clarification.


      Peace be with you.

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      • #78
        It may have escaped your notice sir, but you're a bit of an animal yourself.


        Posted from the TOL App!
        Please don't mind my sexual charisma.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Knight View Post
          toldailytopic: Is lying to an animal immoral?
          Only if they lie back.

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          • #80
            Chimps have been known to lie. Once, in a facility with chimps capable of signing, one was asked who had urinated on the floor.

            The chimp blamed a researcher who wasn't in the room at the time. They are capable of deception, because they seem to be capable of inferring that other beings can think.
            This message is hidden because ...

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Knight View Post
              The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 6th, 2013 05:00 AM


              toldailytopic: Is lying to an animal immoral?






              Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
              If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.
              I don't know, but My mom told me it would not hurt when I went to the dentist and it hurt like hell.

              She told me it would not hurt when the nurse gave me a needle, but it hurt like hell.

              She told me she would not let me go in deep water, but she let me go.

              It was the way in those days.

              I told my kids it would hurt and they never complained about it.

              When I could not find something small to belt my 17 year old son with and picked up a heavy hose instead and belted him like hell, I thought he would leave home but he just wimpered a bit. He knew he deserved it.

              I stood up to my dad once and he belted me to the ground. I never did it again and it helped me more than I realized at the time.



              Tune in for more episodes

              LA
              My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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              • #82
                puppies believe anything. kittens too

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                  I don't know, but My mom told me it would not hurt when I went to the dentist and it hurt like hell.

                  She told me it would not hurt when the nurse gave me a needle, but it hurt like hell.

                  She told me she would not let me go in deep water, but she let me go.

                  It was the way in those days.

                  I told my kids it would hurt and they never complained about it.

                  When I could not find something small to belt my 17 year old son with and picked up a heavy hose instead and belted him like hell, I thought he would leave home but he just wimpered a bit. He knew he deserved it.

                  I stood up to my dad once and he belted me to the ground. I never did it again and it helped me more than I realized at the time.



                  Tune in for more episodes

                  LA
                  Why are you going on about beating your son like hell with a heavy hose?

                  Why do you call beating "belting?"

                  Is that avatar picture a picture of you in prison?




                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Knight View Post
                    The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 6th, 2013 05:00 AM


                    toldailytopic: Is lying to an animal immoral?






                    Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
                    If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.
                    Is lying to a human a sin? It can be if used maliciously (example: false witness), but there is no general condemnation of lying in the scriptures. In fact, telling the truth can be a sin if done maliciously as well - such as leaking secrets to an enemy. Scriptures notes how God has even blinded people so that they would believe lies. I think one needs to delve further than simply whether one is telling the truth or not - we need to look at what is being communicated, why, and what the reasonable results of such information (true or false) will have on others, especially from the perspective of the one communicating said information.

                    Sometimes it is even beneficial to withhold truth from someone who is not ready for it. Example: it would probably pretty easy to make a new Christian stumble by pointing out all the (supposed) theological errors of the denomination/church they started attending - pitting doctrine vs doctrine against someone whose faith is not well-rooted yet and who lacks a real familiarity with the scriptures.
                    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by zoo22 View Post
                      Why are you going on about beating your son like hell with a heavy hose?

                      Why do you call beating "belting?"

                      Is that avatar picture a picture of you in prison?

                      No . I am on the outside looking in .


                      LA
                      My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        At the table recently, one of our cats started scratching at the door to be let out. My youngest daughter obliged but the second she had got up to assist, the cat jumped up onto her chair and started eating her food.
                        Sauce for the goose?
                        Total Misanthropy.
                        Uncertain salvation.
                        Luck of the draw.
                        Irresistible damnation.
                        Persecution of the saints.

                        Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
                        (The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

                        RevTestament: It doesn't matter to me too much that the "New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew.
                        Dialogos: Calvin, as a sinner, probably got some things wrong.
                        Brandplucked: I'm shocked that other people disagree with me.

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                        • #87
                          Since I see all lying as being immoral, I'm going to have to go with, "yes" on this one.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Ttalkkugjil View Post
                            Since I see all lying as being immoral, I'm going to have to go with, "yes" on this one.
                            All lying is immoral, but lying only applies to people, not animals or inanimate objects.

                            You can't lie to an animal, because it doesn't even know the difference between truth and falsehood.

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                            • #89
                              thou shalt not kill

                              does that apply to animals?

                              of course not

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Ttalkkugjil View Post
                                Since I see all lying as being immoral, I'm going to have to go with, "yes" on this one.
                                Joshua 2 gives the story of Rahab that hid the Israelite spies & helped them to escape, and lied to the authorities searching for the spies.

                                In the NT we see that she was justified for what she did.

                                James 2:25 KJV
                                (25) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

                                Hebrews 11:31 KJV
                                (31) By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.



                                Perhaps lies are like killing ...... guilt depends on the motive.
                                "Thou shall not kill" did not apply to the death sentences prescribed for certain crimes committed.

                                We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
                                They already know monsters exist.
                                We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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