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toldailytopic: Is it wise for a Christian parent to send their child to public school

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  • #46
    Originally posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    In addition to recess there are labs, gym class, home-ec, group projects and passing periods. I am not worried the home-school kids are under-socialized. They will still have friends from the neighborhood and many school districts allow home-schoolers to participate in district athletics. My only point is that during the day, public school kids will have more opportunity to interact with more people than the average home schooler.

    In any case, I think the whole socialization argument is a red herring on both sides.
    That's probably true.
    Your problem is not technology. The problem is YOU. You lack the will to change...You treat this planet as you treat each other. - Klaatu

    What are you talking about? There is no such thing as the "Mafia"......it doesn't exist. Just a bunch of lies told to defame honest hardworking Italians like myself. - TomO

    I will do you, let's see, goofy, wacky, and to the left side of the bell curve
    . -Ktoyou

    I'm white. I'm not black. I can't convert to being black. It doesn't matter how much I want to become black. I could listen to rap and date fat white women all day; for all that, I'll still remain white.- Traditio

    Comment


    • #47
      Having seen both the best (good work ethic, high vocabulary) and worst (social ineptitude, maturation stunted, parental control freaks with no ability to teach) of homeschooling, and the best (high socialization, ability to problem-solve and think critically) and worst (fixated on test-taking, inability to seek out new learning material) of public education.......it comes down to the parents and the children, as individuals.

      Parents with a great deal of education, disposable income, and who prioritize their children can be great home educating parents, and children who learn better kinetically or through private study can be great homeschool students.

      Parents with less education, less disposable income, and who prioritize their children can be great public education parents, and children who learn better visually, aurally, or by the act of writing notes in a communal environment can be great public school students.

      Neither choice is more or less "moral" than the other.

      A responsible parent is a responsible parent no matter what form of education they choose for their children.
      What matters is that the choice be based on what their children ACTUALLY NEED, not on any deluded sense of moral superiority on the part of the parent(s)
      “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
      -Adam Hamilton

      “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
      -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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      • #48
        Originally posted by The Berean View Post
        That's true but recess is not that long. Home-school kids can and do socialize with other kids quite as well. This idea that home-schooled kids are isolated from other kids their age is not really an accurate portrayal.
        It's been my experience dealing with kids/people that were home schooled. Obviously it's anecdotal and it depends on how one "does" home school. I just don't think most people are equipped to do it properly. It takes a lot of resources (i.e. money) to give kids the diverse experience they need.
        “We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.



        - The science and faith of theistic evolution explained.

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        • #49
          Definitely yes.... we need to teach our children to shine there light in public and NOT hide it in a Christian school or home school.


          But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. 1 Peter 3:15 (NIV)
          Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)
          For this very reason, make every effort by your faith to produce virtue, by virtue knowledge, 6 by knowledge self-control, by self-control steadfastness, by steadfastness godliness, 7 by godliness brotherly affection, and by brotherly affection love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will make you effective and productive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-8 (NIV)

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          • #50
            Originally posted by The Berean View Post
            Ok. And what opinion of mine do you disagree with? I merely stated stated my observations and my discussions with parents who home-school their children. They love home-schooling and have told me why they love it. So I will defer to their "true knowledge".

            And you have yet to show me not having kids repudiates my three points.

            1) From my direct observations and speaking with home schooled kids they tend to be more respectful, more socially mature, more well-mannered and enjoy learning more
            1.) From my direct observations and experience with public school educated kids, if they have parents who are involved with their lives, they are respectful, socially mature, well mannered, enjoy learning - and adapt well to new types of people and situations, since they have to do that every day in the unpredictable world of public education. The key here is "parents who are involved in their lives". That is what makes the difference - not the setting in which their education takes place.
            2) Speaking with parents who home-school their children, they have told me how they home school, how they augment their in-home teaching with field trips. They also told me home-schooling their parents have only made their family stronger, closer, and more loving.
            2) Being a parent - and a teacher - of children in public schools, I am very familiar with the greater resources - both financially and in the sheer variety of the numbers and types of human resources the public schools have to draw from. And I have found that ALL parents who are involved in their children's lives have stronger, closer and more loving families.
            3) Home-schooled children socialize with kids of all ages through many ways like sports, scouting, camping trips, church activities, etc.
            3) Public schooled children socialize with more children of all ages than home schooled children - this is a fact.

            Can you show me how my lack of kids makes my three points false?
            Can you show me how it makes them true?

            Thank you I will. And I agree there is no point for me to argue with you since you know everything.
            No - but I do know more about raising and teaching children in schools - as I have done both - than you do by merely "talking" to parents.



            Since you have never home-schooled either how qualified are you to opine on the topic of home-schooling? Sounds like you are trying to put me down since you don't agree with my "opinion" with a fallacious "you don't know" argument.
            Actually, I did teach my child to read before he started kindergarten, but as I am certified to teach K-12, I am pretty sure I now more about teaching - period - than you do. "Speaking with" someone doesn't give you the knowledge that you need to make a truly informed opinion.
            Always be yourself unless you can be a unicorn. Then, always be a unicorn.


            “And every day, the world will drag you by the hand, yelling, ‘This is important! And this is important! And this is important! You need to worry about this! And this! And this!’ And each day, it’s up to you to yank your hand back, put it on your heart and say, ‘No. This is what’s important.’” –Iain Thomas

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            • #51
              On the whole, I consider state-schools the option of last resort.
              We sent our two boys (now on the mission field) to Christian Schools. The eldest switched to public high school for the advanced placement classes. At that point he had the maturity to deal with the intense pressure our kids face. The same with the younger boy, except he accelerated and graduated in three years, and led a Bible study every year.
              But I question whether that would have worked out so well if they did not have those years of a Christian School education first.
              I think if we had had access to a first-rate Christian High School, we would not have gone with public schools, but -- as I said, this is the option of last resort, and it worked out OK.

              Comment


              • #52
                The best would be private schools; I attended private schools (all girls in high school), until I went to college, which was also private, unlike UT Knoxville.

                Home schooling, this is the best, if you have some who can teach all the subjects well. Especially as the child becomes mire advanced.
                Public school, it today’s socialist democracy, I think that is about the same as selling one’s children because they are too much a burden.

                Schools today teach PC, the same as once in Russia, all persons are the same, all homos are good, so are boys how want to be girls, but God is all bad, so hate God and love your different ones, no matter the difference!
                So, what?

                believe it!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by drbrumley View Post
                  Myth: “Homeschooled kids do not get enough socialization.”
                  It is not a myth - I've seen it with both family and college friends. They have to go home every weekend because they can't stand to be apart from them, and they are socially awkward. More than me even - and I'm naturally very introverted and unsocial.

                  Since when is it the government’s job to provide my kid with friends? And since when does going to public school guarantee popularity? We have all known kids that that are lonely, shy, or friendless despite being in a classroom full of other kids day after day, year after year.
                  Its not the governments job to provide these things, but public schools provide them nonetheless. A child, in our society, spends a fairly large portion of their time in class or in extra-curricular activities. Whether they are popular or not, they learn to interact and socialize here. No, its not always pleasant - I have always been much more of a social outcast myself; the large nerdy one who had no social grace whatsoever. I don't think I started combing my hair everyday till the end of high school in fact.

                  And this is with going to public school for my entire life. I've gotten much better of course, but I still find the social graces hard. Mostly because I honestly don't care much - why spend the effort when I could be doing something I do care about? Nevertheless, I do not regret my social experiences from public school at all. It would have taken me much longer to develop basic social graces and social skills were I to have stayed at home to do my schooling.

                  And I gained much from a public atmosphere as a Christian. I was challenged at times a Christian - being exposed to very diverse ideas. But I was to grow because of these challenges, they pushed me to start studying my own beliefs seriously; and now I am not only well studied in my own beliefs but I also have a Bachelors in Religious Studies and have studied many other religions - the study of which has only further strengthened my belief in the superiority of Christianity.

                  Beyond the understanding of my own beliefs, I understand where other people from opposing views are coming from. Having had several atheist, pagan, lesbian, bi, transexual, mormon, Catholic, Jewish, etc. friends - I do not demonize these people. We see people on this forum who constantly treat any who disagree with them over even small matters as demons who they will be glad to see burn in hell. They do not treat them as fellow human beings who may honestly have some decent reasons, given their current level of understanding, for why they do what they do and for what they believe. Someone who is sheltered from the public and who only interacts with the "proper Christian community" lack this - they do not have a decent means of interacting with those who disagree with them. Thus, as Christians, they will have a very hard time living up to the tasks of loving their fellow man and of sharing the gospel, or even defending themselves from potentially convincing arguments from anti or non-Christian beliefs.

                  There is actually very little socialization occurring at today’s government schools, unless by socialization you mean “indoctrination” or “institutionalization.” Recess is becoming a thing of the past, and even lunch period has become a no talking zone in my local school district, with “silent lunch” in effect. The fact is that today’s schools have very little resemblance to the schooldays you may reminisce about.
                  It has only been 6 or 7 years since I was in high school. While I'm sure there have been some changes, I don't think the amount of socializing has changed that much. I certainty didn't have "silent lunches" - that sounds like a local problem rather than something that is commonly practiced.

                  But homeschooling is whatever you make it to be. The social opportunities are out there through co-ops, churches, extra-curricular activities, you just have to be motivated enough to get your child involved. How do you find other homeschooled kids? When you are out and about during the day and see other school-aged kids, chances are they are homeschooled – introduce yourself and don’t be afraid to ask questions. Search Google or Yahoo Groups for homeschool groups in your area, and if you don’t find one, start one. Ask your local library or teacher supply store if they know of other homeschooling families. Book sales and churches are another good place to start. As you become involved in extra-curricular activities like scouting or sports, ask around – there are probably other homeschooled kids there, too. Soon enough your calendar will be full of play dates and field trips and park days. Good thing our school day is half the length of the public school day and we don’t have homework – now we actually have much more time to socialize with friends and family – a perfect segue into the next myth... Taken from the Survival Blog
                  Here is your first problem - YOU are initializing all of the social interaction. In public schools, no one is making the children socialize (for the most part) - it is something one must do on ones own. One must take the initiative to engage others themselves - not go to social events setup for them by their parents. One must find develop one's own connections and learn to deal wtih social problems by one's self - without their parent their guiding the process or looking over their shoulder.

                  The next problem is what I mentioned before - YOU are going to opt for your child to be exposed to only those people you want them to be exposed to. This is typically people who think more or less exactly as you do. Thus one's child will not be challenged by opposing view points and realities or learn to deal with them.

                  Going along with this, one is not going to learn how to socialize with anyone but family and family friends. However, one's personal growth is severely stunted so long as one lingers under their parents shadow. There's a time and place for it - but in one's teens one needs to steadily start to grow apart from one's parents and become independent.
                  If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Not wise at all.

                    Our government schools enforce the government religion (humanistic naturalism, or some variant thereof), and they do so brutally.

                    Yes, no true christian child will fall away because of being subjected to such, but it will greatly impede their growth in biblical knowledge and worldview and likely induce many anti-christian ideas into their mind that have to be overcome and expunged.

                    There's plenty of places to interact with non-believers in order to get some experience engaging with them outside of government churches.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by moparguy View Post
                      Our government schools enforce the government religion (humanistic naturalism, or some variant thereof), and they do so brutally.
                      They certainly aren't friends with Christianity - but then the goal of school is not to teach religion in the first place.

                      Yes, no true christian child will fall away because of being subjected to such, but it will greatly impede their growth in biblical knowledge and worldview and likely induce many anti-christian ideas into their mind that have to be overcome and expunged.
                      Not at all - it will challenge them and cause them to grow. Rather, one who simply accepts whatever is taught by the priest unquestioningly will be the one who's growth is stunted. One does not need to expunge other views either - that is a bad mindset to have. One should try to understand other people's views. How else will you hope to do your duty as a Christian and evangelize or defend your views in an intelligible manner?

                      There's plenty of places to interact with non-believers in order to get some experience engaging with them outside of government churches.
                      Where is a child or even a teenager who is homeschooling going to pick up such interactions? And why would they opt to do so themselves?
                      If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Breathe View Post
                        1.) From my direct observations and experience with public school educated kids, if they have parents who are involved with their lives, they are respectful, socially mature, well mannered, enjoy learning - and adapt well to new types of people and situations, since they have to do that every day in the unpredictable world of public education. The key here is "parents who are involved in their lives". That is what makes the difference - not the setting in which their education takes place.
                        I agree with this but in today's world lots of parents don't do this. How many parents come to a school's Open House? One of my best friends is a high school teacher and I can't count how many times she get frustrated because many parents are not involved in their child's education. My friend's biggest concern is that many parents don't care about their child's education at all. What about the kids who parents are NOT involved? What is your experience with them?

                        2) Being a parent - and a teacher - of children in public schools, I am very familiar with the greater resources - both financially and in the sheer variety of the numbers and types of human resources the public schools have to draw from. And I have found that ALL parents who are involved in their children's lives have stronger, closer and more loving families.
                        No argument here. When parent are involved, as mine were in my education, that makes a big difference.

                        3) Public schooled children socialize with more children of all ages than home schooled children - this is a fact.
                        No, it is not a fact. It's your opinion. Do have statistics to back that up?

                        Can you show me how it makes them true?
                        Me not having kids is irreverent to the points I've made. I posted observations, and information I learned from parents who home schooled their kids. How is my status as anon-parent relevant to the information and views that home schooling parents have?

                        No - but I do know more about raising and teaching children in schools - as I have done both - than you do by merely "talking" to parents.
                        I've done a lot more than just "talk to parents". I've tutored kids through out my life from first graders to college kids in math and science. I recently tutored my 17 year old niece in math. I even considered becoming a math/science teach at one point in my life. Granted, I haven't taught formally in a school settling but I was good at "teaching" kids.

                        Actually, I did teach my child to read before he started kindergarten, but as I am certified to teach K-12, I am pretty sure I now more about teaching - period - than you do. "Speaking with" someone doesn't give you the knowledge that you need to make a truly informed opinion.
                        Given the lack of teaching skills I've seen from many, many teachers I've had over my life I have no doubt I am a better "teacher" than many "certified" teachers. According to this article teaching certificates have no bearing on the quality of a teacher.

                        http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._fact_gladwell
                        Your problem is not technology. The problem is YOU. You lack the will to change...You treat this planet as you treat each other. - Klaatu

                        What are you talking about? There is no such thing as the "Mafia"......it doesn't exist. Just a bunch of lies told to defame honest hardworking Italians like myself. - TomO

                        I will do you, let's see, goofy, wacky, and to the left side of the bell curve
                        . -Ktoyou

                        I'm white. I'm not black. I can't convert to being black. It doesn't matter how much I want to become black. I could listen to rap and date fat white women all day; for all that, I'll still remain white.- Traditio

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by StanJ53 View Post
                          Definitely yes.... we need to teach our children to shine there light in public and NOT hide it in a Christian school or home school.
                          I guess you would know, being such a good example,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                          So, what?

                          believe it!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by csuguy View Post
                            They certainly aren't friends with Christianity - but then the goal of school is not to teach religion in the first place.
                            All schools teach a basic worldview. The very act of teaching imparts worldview.

                            Not at all - it will challenge them and cause them to grow.
                            Than by this same standard, why not send our kids down to hang out at the local brothel, and than to hang out with drug-dealers.

                            On the standard of "it will toughen them up" obviously these places will make far tougher kids.

                            Besides the fact that sending kids to the government churches is sending them to be disciples by those places, when God clearly told us to make them disciples of Christ.

                            Rather, one who simply accepts whatever is taught by the priest unquestioningly will be the one who's growth is stunted.
                            This is why I mentioned the caveat "no true christian will fall away" - it is these I am discussing, not those who falsely claim to be christians.

                            One does not need to expunge other views either - that is a bad mindset to have. One should try to understand other people's views. How else will you hope to do your duty as a Christian and evangelize or defend your views in an intelligible manner?
                            Perhaps I should have been more clear. I did not mean "remove" other views - what has to be done is to overcome the idea that any non-christian views are true.

                            Where is a child or even a teenager who is homeschooling going to pick up such interactions? And why would they opt to do so themselves?
                            Says the person posting on just such a place. Or facebook. Or the local playground. Or community bands, or local sports teams, or every time they turn on a TV ... it is all but impossible to get away from the mainstream view simply because it is mainstream.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              As for home schooled children not having enough opportunities to socialize, the facts bare out the opposite.

                              http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...n-not-problem/

                              http://www.hslda.ca/about_home_education/research

                              http://school.familyeducation.com/ho...ons/56224.html

                              http://www.usnews.com/education/high...pe-for-college
                              Your problem is not technology. The problem is YOU. You lack the will to change...You treat this planet as you treat each other. - Klaatu

                              What are you talking about? There is no such thing as the "Mafia"......it doesn't exist. Just a bunch of lies told to defame honest hardworking Italians like myself. - TomO

                              I will do you, let's see, goofy, wacky, and to the left side of the bell curve
                              . -Ktoyou

                              I'm white. I'm not black. I can't convert to being black. It doesn't matter how much I want to become black. I could listen to rap and date fat white women all day; for all that, I'll still remain white.- Traditio

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by moparguy View Post
                                All schools teach a basic worldview. The very act of teaching imparts worldview.
                                To a certain extent yes - but they do not teach religion or a philosophy, save perhaps patriotism - but I went through public school and always refused to pledge allegiance. Mathematics or English, for example, isn't going to influence one's view on life much.

                                Than by this same standard, why not send our kids down to hang out at the local brothel, and than to hang out with drug-dealers.

                                On the standard of "it will toughen them up" obviously these places will make far tougher kids.
                                Oh please - don't speak in extremes. Public school provides a relatively safe environment for children to be exposed to ever more mature issues and challenges - it doesn't thrust them straight into the heart of corruption or danger.

                                Besides the fact that sending kids to the government churches is sending them to be disciples by those places, when God clearly told us to make them disciples of Christ.
                                Public school is not a church Furthermore, disciples of Christ are told to go into the world - not hide from it. They are to be a light to the world, not hidden away.

                                This is why I mentioned the caveat "no true christian will fall away" - it is these I am discussing, not those who falsely claim to be christians.
                                One may honestly be a Christian but not study theology much if at all. If one is only ever exposed to what a single brand of thought, what need would they feel to study? There would be nothing challenging their beliefs to fuel the need or desire. Everything would be "obvious" to them - the "truth" is what their parents and preacher tell them and what everyone they know believes.

                                Perhaps I should have been more clear. I did not mean "remove" other views - what has to be done is to overcome the idea that any non-christian views are true.
                                Well, anti-Christian at any rate. There are non-Christian beliefs which may very well be true - such as in matters which are non-religious.

                                Says the person posting on just such a place.
                                How many Christians, home school or otherwise, do you think study theology seriously and seek to debate it? Believe it or not - we are the exception.

                                Or facebook.
                                I don't know about you, but I tend to only be connected to people I actually know on facebook. Myspace would have been more apt - but even here one isn't really interacting with those one befriends. They simply get added to a large list of people one doesn't really know or interact with.

                                Or the local playground. Or community bands, or local sports teams, or every time they turn on a TV ... it is all but impossible to get away from the mainstream view simply because it is mainstream.
                                It might be difficult to completely shut out mainstream views, but knowing that opposing views exist and facing them are two different things.
                                If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

                                Comment

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