ECT Water Baptism and Romans 9:16

[Jerry Shugart]

From the following passage we can understand that submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in a person's salvation:

"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" (Ro.9:15-16).​

When anyone submits to the rite of water baptism his "will" is involved and Paul says that "it is not of him who willeth." So submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in anyone's salvation. When the first century believers submitted to the rite of water baptism their being "born of God" had nothing to do with any of their "wills":

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

It is impossible for anyone to submit to the rite of water baptism apart from his will.

 

[andyc]

We are are baptised because we are born again, not to be born again :up:

 

[Right Divider]

The apostle Paul says that there is ONE baptism for the body of Christ ... and it's NOT water.

This the ONE baptism for the body of Christ:

1Co 12:13 KJV For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

So simple and yet so rejected by most.

 

[Cntrysner]

The apostle Paul says that there is ONE baptism for the body of Christ ... and it's NOT water.

This the ONE baptism for the body of Christ:

1Co 12:13 KJV For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

So simple and yet so rejected by most.

What then do you think of those that participate in water baptism after salvation? Did they miss the message and somehow rob Christ of His finished work? Baptist churches and the majority of other churches will not fully accept members until they are water baptized.

 

[Right Divider]

What then do you think of those that participate in water baptism after salvation?

I think that they are confused and have bought some of the myths of Churchianity.

Did they miss the message and somehow rob Christ of His finished work?

If they believe that the water ceremony in any way contributes to their salvation.

Baptist churches and the majority of other churches will not fully accept members until they are water baptized.

They are confused and wrong. Stay far away from them.

 

[Cntrysner]

I think that they are confused and have bought some of the myths of Churchianity.


If they believe that the water ceremony in any way contributes to their salvation.


They are confused and wrong. Stay far away from them.

I was in a baptist church for many years and prior pentecostal. I was water baptized and lucky me I was circumcised shortly after birth . Thank God for His written word, I am now free from indoctrination by rites. I saw so many practices robbing Christ. The biggy, most of my family are pentecostal..it's a lonely life because it's hard for me to shut my mouth when the subject of salvation is on the table. The ritual of water baptism should never be practiced least the rite gives even one the wrong idea.

 

[Bradley D]

Some see baptism as symbolic to dying to sin and arising saved/cleansed from sin. An outward exercise, but must be truly felt in the heart to have any true meaning..

"John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.…"(Mark 1:4-5).

 

[Right Divider]

Some see baptism as symbolic to dying to sin and arising saved/cleansed from sin. An outward exercise, but must be truly felt in the heart to have any true meaning..

"John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.…"(Mark 1:4-5).

Right division solves this problem.

The symbolism was invented due to lack of understanding.

 

[DAN P]

From the following passage we can understand that submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in a person's salvation:

"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" (Ro.9:15-16).​

When anyone submits to the rite of water baptism his "will" is involved and Paul says that "it is not of him who willeth." So submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in anyone's salvation. When the first century believers submitted to the rite of water baptism their being "born of God" had nothing to do with any of their "wills":

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

It is impossible for anyone to submit to the rite of water baptism apart from his will.

Hi and here is my answer to the above !!

Rom 9:16 has NOTING to do with WATER BAPTISM !!

In Heb 6:1 and 2 , we do have answer for today concerning WATER BAPTISM !!

The first verse says LEAVING and are to FORSAKE the doctrine , FORSAKE the teachings of Repentance , and of Faith toward God !!

In verse 2 FORSAKE the teachings of BAPTISMS / BAPTISMOS , the Resurrction of the DEAD , and of Eternal Judgment !!


There are still many the refuse to believe Hebrews !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and here is my answer to the above !!

Rom 9:16 has NOTING to do with WATER BAPTISM !!

Dan, Romans 9:16 is saying that a person's salvation happens apart from a person's will. And that means that submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in anyone's salvation. In fact, when water baptism was in order a person had to believe before they could be baptized with water:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).​

Before the eunuch was baptized with water he was already "born of God" because he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4-5).​

There can be no doubt that the eunuch received eternal life and was "born of God" before he was baptized with water so we can know that being baptized with water did not contribute in any way to anyone being saved when water baptism was in order.

Of course during the present dispensation there is only "one baptism" and that baptism is not with water but instead the baptism performed by One Spirit Who baptizes believers into the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13).

 

[DAN P]

Dan, Romans 9:16 is saying that a person's salvation happens apart from a person's will. And that means that submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in anyone's salvation. In fact, when water baptism was in order a person had to believe before they could be baptized with water:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).​

Before the eunuch was baptized with water he was already "born of God" because he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4-5).​

There can be no doubt that the eunuch received eternal life and was "born of God" before he was baptized with water so we can know that being baptized with water did not contribute in any way to anyone being saved when water baptism was in order.

Of course during the present dispensation there is only "one baptism" and that baptism is not with water but instead the baptism performed by One Spirit Who baptizes believers into the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13).

And I agree that there is ONLY ONE BAPTISMA / BAPTIZER as Paul wrote in Eph 4:5 !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I am waiting for turbosixx to reply to this thread.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Still waiting for Turbosixx!

 

[henrydv]

Aman

 

[henrydv]

We are are baptised because we are born again, not to be born again :up:

Amen and Amen
After we believe, We are baptized.
Repent, and be baptized Acts 2:38
they that gladly received his word were baptized Acts 2:41
they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized. Acts 8:12
Simon himself believed he was baptized
Acts 8:13
If thou believest with all thine heart Acts 8:37
the eunuch said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Philip baptized him. Acts 8:35-39
Saul believe in Jesus Acts 9:8 Saul baptized Acts 9:18
They heard the word, believed and were baptized Acts 10:4-48
And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God. She already believed.
Acts 16:14
she was baptized Acts 16:16
charging the jailor to keep Paul and Silas Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved safely. the jailor asked. Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. They were baptized after they believed Acts 16:20-33
believed on the Lord with all his house, and many of the Corinthians hearing believed and were baptized. Acts 18:8
I do not read in the bible that a person is baptized and then believe. I only read that we must believe first then are baptized.
All these verses teach you must believe before you are baptized.
There are more verses than these in the Bible.

 

[Right Divider]

Amen and Amen
After we believe, We are baptized.
Repent, and be baptized Acts 2:38
they that gladly received his word were baptized Acts 2:41
they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized. Acts 8:12
Simon himself believed he was baptized
Acts 8:13
If thou believest with all thine heart Acts 8:37
the eunuch said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Philip baptized him. Acts 8:35-39
Saul believe in Jesus Acts 9:8 Saul baptized Acts 9:18
They heard the word, believed and were baptized Acts 10:4-48
And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God. She already believed.
Acts 16:14
she was baptized Acts 16:16
charging the jailor to keep Paul and Silas Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved safely. the jailor asked. Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. They were baptized after they believed Acts 16:20-33
believed on the Lord with all his house, and many of the Corinthians hearing believed and were baptized. Acts 18:8
I do not read in the bible that a person is baptized and then believe. I only read that we must believe first then are baptized.
All these verses teach you must believe before you are baptized.
There are more verses than these in the Bible.

Sorry to say... you're another one (and there are MANY) that does not rightly divide the word of truth per Paul.

 

[Fisherofmen]

From the following passage we can understand that submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in a person's salvation:

"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" (Ro.9:15-16).​

When anyone submits to the rite of water baptism his "will" is involved and Paul says that "it is not of him who willeth." So submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in anyone's salvation. When the first century believers submitted to the rite of water baptism their being "born of God" had nothing to do with any of their "wills":

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

It is impossible for anyone to submit to the rite of water baptism apart from his will.

A man must be born of both water and the Spirit (John 3:5). Not just the Spirit. That is the will of God, as stated by God (Himself). Before he is born of water and the Spirit, a man must first believe (Mark 16:16). In the case of those incapable of believing on their own, God accepts the belief of others on their behalf. This would be the case with infants, and others who cannot reason. God's grace leads the way in all of these cases. A man is no more water baptized by his own will alone, than he believes by his own will alone. God's grace always leads the way, and without God, man can do nothing (John 15:5). And that is the meaning of "by the will of God". For God can "pour out His grace to" or "withhold His grace from" whomever He wishes, and his being born again is dependent on this grace which is dependent on His mercy (Rom 9:16).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A man must be born of both water and the Spirit (John 3:5). Not just the Spirit. That is the will of God, as stated by God (Himself). Before he is born of water and the Spirit, a man must first believe (Mark 16:16).

The Lord Jesus used the word "water"symbolically and it refers to the "water of separation: it is a purification for sin" (Num.19:9).

 

[God's Truth]

From the following passage we can understand that submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in a person's salvation:

"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" (Ro.9:15-16).​

When anyone submits to the rite of water baptism his "will" is involved and Paul says that "it is not of him who willeth." So submitting to the rite of water baptism plays no part in anyone's salvation. When the first century believers submitted to the rite of water baptism their being "born of God" had nothing to do with any of their "wills":

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

It is impossible for anyone to submit to the rite of water baptism apart from his will.

There are things we have to do to get saved. God's word is true, and He says if we do this and that then He will save us.

The scripture you posted from John is about salvation since Jesus.

Since Jesus Christ and his appearing, it no longer matters to whom we are blood related, it only matters now if we come to God by the blood of Jesus Christ:

See John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Did you read how the scripture says 'not of natural descent'?
Natural decent is about those to whom we are blood related.
The written Word of God says NOT of natural descent. That means it does not matter if someone is blood related to Abraham anymore.

Now see how the scripture says not of human decision?
That is about a human cannot make the decision to be saved just by saying they are saved.

See how the scripture says not of a husband's will?
That is about a husband not being able to have his wife become a Jew by converting her with certain rituals the Jews used to do.
In the past, a Jew could marry and then the wife performs the practices of Judaism, and so become a Jew and a child of God...this is no more now since Jesus.

Being born of God is how we are now saved. We are born of God by receiving the Holy Spirit. We receive the Holy Spirit by asking Jesus to save us, after we repent of our sins and calling on him.

 

[God's Truth]

A man must be born of both water and the Spirit (John 3:5). Not just the Spirit. That is the will of God, as stated by God (Himself). Before he is born of water and the Spirit, a man must first believe (Mark 16:16). In the case of those incapable of believing on their own, God accepts the belief of others on their behalf. This would be the case with infants, and others who cannot reason. God's grace leads the way in all of these cases. A man is no more water baptized by his own will alone, than he believes by his own will alone. God's grace always leads the way, and without God, man can do nothing (John 15:5). And that is the meaning of "by the will of God". For God can "pour out His grace to" or "withhold His grace from" whomever He wishes, and his being born again is dependent on this grace which is dependent on His mercy (Rom 9:16).

No one can get baptized for another person. A person must first repent of their sins and believe that Jesus' shed blood on the cross washes away their sins.