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  • #46
    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    Then I still don't understand why the letters to the churches need worry about that supposed distinction.
    The "churches" in the book of Revelation are NOT the body of Christ.

    Why is this so hard for you to understand?
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Originally posted by Squeaky
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Originally posted by God's Truth
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      The "churches" in the book of Revelation are NOT the body of Christ.

      Why is this so hard for you to understand?
      Your words :

      During this dispensation of His grace freely given there is no distinction.
      Those churches were around during the "dispensation of Grace" when there is no distinction - yet you want to make a distinction after saying there is no distinction. That's at least the beginning of my confusion.
      If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

      The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
      Jeremiah 17:9

      Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
      Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

      Isaiah 50:10-11

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
        Your words :

        Those churches were around during the "dispensation of Grace" when there is no distinction - yet you want to make a distinction after saying there is no distinction. That's at least the beginning of my confusion.
        No, that is speaking to those churches in the future.

        It's that Preterism that causes your confusion.
        All of my ancestors are human.
        Originally posted by Squeaky
        That explains why your an idiot.
        Originally posted by God's Truth
        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
          No, that is speaking to those churches in the future.

          It's that Preterism that causes your confusion.
          The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
          Rev 1:1

          Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
          Rev 1:19

          Which is almost immediately followed up by Jesus' assessment of existing churches and His command to John to write "Unto the angel of the church of....". There is no evidence that this was intended to be written to churches in the future. On top of which, what immediately follows is :

          After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
          Revelation 4:1

          It isn't a stretch of logic to say he has already written the things that are. He has already detailed what was current to his day. The supposed literalism of the dispensationalist breaks down here. The clear reading of Rev 2 and 3 is that it is to churches current to John's day (and we know there were churches in those cities in Asia Minor). To say that these are to churches well into the future is to read into the scriptures something that isn't there when what is written points to John writing about things that are (in his day).

          {I should add that I'm not a preterist}
          If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

          The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
          Jeremiah 17:9

          Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
          Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

          Isaiah 50:10-11

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
            The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
            Rev 1:1

            Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
            Rev 1:19

            Which is almost immediately followed up by Jesus' assessment of existing churches and His command to John to write "Unto the angel of the church of....". There is no evidence that this was intended to be written to churches in the future. On top of which, what immediately follows is :

            After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
            Revelation 4:1

            It isn't a stretch of logic to say he has already written the things that are. He has already detailed what was current to his day. The supposed literalism of the dispensationalist breaks down here. The clear reading of Rev 2 and 3 is that it is to churches current to John's day (and we know there were churches in those cities in Asia Minor). To say that these are to churches well into the future is to read into the scriptures something that isn't there when what is written points to John writing about things that are (in his day).

            {I should add that I'm not a preterist}
            God intervened... John did NOT know about the dispensation of the grace of God that would interrupt the program that Jesus and the twelve were operating under.

            Sorry, but you seemed to be expressing the preterist view that all of the Bible has already happened.
            All of my ancestors are human.
            Originally posted by Squeaky
            That explains why your an idiot.
            Originally posted by God's Truth
            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
              The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
              Rev 1:1

              Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
              Rev 1:19

              Which is almost immediately followed up by Jesus' assessment of existing churches and His command to John to write "Unto the angel of the church of....". There is no evidence that this was intended to be written to churches in the future. On top of which, what immediately follows is :

              After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
              Revelation 4:1

              It isn't a stretch of logic to say he has already written the things that are. He has already detailed what was current to his day. The supposed literalism of the dispensationalist breaks down here. The clear reading of Rev 2 and 3 is that it is to churches current to John's day (and we know there were churches in those cities in Asia Minor). To say that these are to churches well into the future is to read into the scriptures something that isn't there when what is written points to John writing about things that are (in his day).

              {I should add that I'm not a preterist}
              Preterist has a bad name but dispensation can not be proven when it requires someone's opinion in their interpretation of prophecies.

              There is much in the book of Revelation that has not been fulfilled,
              Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

              In Matthew Jesus pointed out to his disciples that there would not be one stone left upon another when the temple would be destroyed. In 70 AD it was destroyed, just as Jesus said. That marked the end of the final generation of people that had lived under Law.

              If you believe the above, many will call you a preterist. Don't be offended.

              Comment

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