Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Food Sacrificed to Idols

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    I have a two-part question for you :

    Do you believe spiritual promises are made to national/natural Israel? And do you believe those promises are ever of any direct application to the (Gentile) church?
    Give some examples and we can discuss.

    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    You have said that the Bible does not describe or enjoin everyone universally, but the MAD context makes a division such that there appears to be little or no cross-application (i.e. to both Jew and Gentile) unless explicitly indicated.
    I have said NO SUCH THING.

    God chose Israel for a purpose. Gentiles were ALWAYS welcome to JOIN with Israel.

    Israel has a destiny to have a kingdom on the earth. That was a promise that God made to them.

    The body of Christ has NO such promise. We, the body of Christ, have a different role to play. Paul explains this throughout his epistles.

    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    But it seems to me that there are several scriptures that at least imply that such a stark division is not warranted. Romans 2:29 and Ephesians 2:14 being two examples.
    Ah... the old "spiritual Israel" fix... Paul was actually talking about actual JEWS in that passage.

    In the body of Christ there is no distinction between Jew and gentile. When God takes the body of Christ out of the world and comes again to establish His kingdom, there will once again be a distinction. The book of Revelation makes that clear. In the new Jerusalem ....

    Rev 21:9-14 KJV And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. (10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    Just read it. It's quite clear.

    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    I can see national Israel being given national promises that can not be ported over to anyone else, but what you seem to be doing in Revelation is using the OT imagery and certain wording to limit the scope of application.
    Duh... that's exactly how it works. Just like James writes to the "twelve tribes scattered aboard"... you cannot ignore that and expect to actually understand what he is writing... Same with the book of Revelation written by ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit in TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel.

    Mat 19:28 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Luk 22:29-30 KJV And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; (30) That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    Paul called the church the temple of God.
    Please QUOTE the scripture that you are referring to so that we can discuss it.

    Paul called individuals believers in the body of Christ the temple of God. 1 Cor 3:16

    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    Stephen refers to the church in the wilderness in Acts 7:38.
    The church in the wilderness is Israel.

    Church is a very generic word. You cannot just say "church", you have to qualify it.

    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    Paul frequently reasons and debates with Jews and Gentiles. The term synagogue refers to a gathering. In the LXX it is used in a Gentile context in several places.
    Distractions....

    Once AGAIN... why is it SO bad that someone who calls themselves a Jew when they are not that they are called the synagogue of Satan?

    Rev 2:9 KJV I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

    Rev 3:9 KJV Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    My point (and I hope you will answer the question) is that seeing OT imagery should not be surprising since the things in the OT were shadows of the real (e.g. Heb 8:5) and unless there is actually Jew and Gentile in Christ, those spiritual things are not simply intended in a Jewish context.
    You try so hard to blur everything in to one that you cannot see any of the details. The Bible is a book of details.

    Israel and the body of Christ are two things that God created.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Originally posted by Squeaky
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Originally posted by God's Truth
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
      I find my position to be fully supported by scripture.
      So does everyone.
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
        So does everyone.
        I'm glad even you find my position very Biblical.
        “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
        ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

        “One and God make a majority.”
        ― Frederick Douglass

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
          The questions are these :

          1. What is meant in these instances by eating things sacrificed to idols? (Please give a reasoned answer)
          1 Corinthians 8:8-12; 10:6-13,14-33
          Galatians 5:17

          Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
          2. How does that square with Paul's word to the Corinthians (I Cor 8) about eating food sacrificed to idols?
          The same: the concern, I believe, is indulging the flesh. Note the clear connection between 'eating' and sexual sin. Both are indulgences of the flesh to the disregard of the spirit. The Reformed believe in a sense of "Christian Hedonism" vs. unspiritual hedonism. We believe Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ are not condemning pleasure/pain in the flesh. Ice cream is good. Instead, these are guidelines for what is good and profitable in spiritual ways, vs. what may be good and pleasurable but hold no spiritual benefit and worse, may harm self and others. The world culture is bent upon the physical form of men and women by example, in movies, magazines, products etc. Paul says that while physical attention (exercise, looking good and healthy) is of some benefit, the spiritual is more important. The dichotomy is always that we are not just flesh, but spiritual beings and need to keep our intents always on spiritual things. "Football" discussion after church may be done with spiritual intent BUT we have to be careful that it isn't just an indulging of whims of the flesh (not sure if its a good example, but I'm trying to think of a few items that I know become idols (flesh, not spiritual, not God-focused or honoring).

          Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
          3. How about with the Jerusalem Council's conclusions for the Gentiles in Acts 15:19-20?
          To me, same idea: a man/woman focused on his/her spiritual man needs little instruction: They are trying to live for and through that nature 'naturally.' The problem is backsliding and inattention to the spiritual man. It leads to death, Paul says. He gives Christians warning in 1 Corinthians 3:15

          "If a person is saved, what's the problem?" Simply this: We are wasting time and not living as if the goal is the Lord Jesus Christ and Holiness. It reaches further: Such causes another to stumble as well. A believer? His/her life is spent on things burned in the fire and gone with little to show. The unbeliever we 'help into the grave.' Paul goes further in 1 Corinthians 3 to say that doing such is destroying what is God's then in Chapter 13 says "And now I will show you a more excellent way."


          Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
          4. How do the spiritual conditions of these two churches compare?
          Same concern, perhaps greater extent of one and the other fleshly indulgence. What difference do you see?
          My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
          Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
          Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
          Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
          No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
          Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

          ? Yep

          Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

          ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

          Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

          Comment


          • #35
            @Lon:

            My reading of the letters to Thyatira and Pergamos is that the "Balaam" and "Jezebel" mentioned were essentially introducing their teachings covertly. Balaam seemed to make people stumble into the sin and Jezebel taught some to sin - but did so in such a way that they were caught up in it maybe before they were aware of what was going on. So Jezebel (more than Balaam) was initiating people into this eating of meat sacrificed to idols. By definition, I think, that is what the occult is. So it's my belief based on that (and the Lord's stopping short of exposing the dark doctrine any further to spare undefiled consciences) that Jezebel's following was really and actually being brought into some very deep and sinister idolatry. Even if just by the way it was denounced, the Balaam in Pergamos didn't seem to be as insidious as Jezebel (who led people to know "the depths of Satan"). I see this as far more spiritual than physical. There may have been physical working out - but in at least Thyatira, I think it was more wrapped up in spiritual filthiness than in Pergamos.

            So when looking back to Acts and Paul's admonition to the Corinthians, I'm left with the impression that the Jerusalem council was trying to warn Gentiles against even the hint of involvement with physical idolatry. Not that they disagreed with Paul (I can't imagine they did) but rather that the chief dangers of the day involved pagan idolatry and sexual immorality (often directly connected one with another). Paul - I guess - was trying to avoid the nearsightedness associated with legalism and making the food itself sinful AND recognizing that those that fall into THAT trap are probably just as unbelieving as the idolaters (Titus 1:15).
            If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

            The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
            Jeremiah 17:9

            Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
            Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

            Isaiah 50:10-11

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
              @Lon:

              My reading of the letters to Thyatira and Pergamos is that the "Balaam" and "Jezebel" mentioned were essentially introducing their teachings covertly. Balaam seemed to make people stumble into the sin and Jezebel taught some to sin - but did so in such a way that they were caught up in it maybe before they were aware of what was going on.
              What people?
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                What people?
                But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
                Rev 2:14

                Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
                Rev 2:20

                Those that hold the doctrine of Balaam (in Pergamos) and those that were seduced by "Jezebel" (in Thyatira).
                If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

                The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
                Jeremiah 17:9

                Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
                Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

                Isaiah 50:10-11

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                  But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
                  Rev 2:14

                  Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
                  Rev 2:20

                  Those that hold the doctrine of Balaam (in Pergamos) and those that were seduced by "Jezebel" (in Thyatira).
                  "Those people" are Israel.
                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                    "Those people" are Israel.
                    Even if I were to accept that as true, what difference would that make? Is it any less applicable to the church?
                    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

                    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
                    Jeremiah 17:9

                    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
                    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

                    Isaiah 50:10-11

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                      Even if I were to accept that as true, what difference would that make? Is it any less applicable to the church?
                      The book of Revelation is primarily to and about Israel.

                      If you try to apply it directly to the church which is His body... the body of Christ... you will be very confused.

                      Many prominent Christian teachers try to "teach" the book of Revelation and make an incredible mess out of it.

                      But, if you rightly divide as Paul commands, it's all very clear.
                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                        The book of Revelation is primarily to and about Israel.

                        If you try to apply it directly to the church which is His body... the body of Christ... you will be very confused.

                        Many prominent Christian teachers try to "teach" the book of Revelation and make an incredible mess out of it.

                        But, if you rightly divide as Paul commands, it's all very clear.
                        And this is why I was concerned this may not be the thread for this subject - because in my eyes, you have contradicted yourself or misapplied what I concluded (as my understanding of MAD). I said :

                        You have said that the Bible does not describe or enjoin everyone universally, but the MAD context makes a division such that there appears to be little or no cross-application (i.e. to both Jew and Gentile) unless explicitly indicated.
                        To which you responded :

                        I have said NO SUCH THING.
                        Now it may be that I wasn't quoting you properly, but what you went on to say seemed to validate exactly what I said. So I'm left spending my time trying to navigate the waters of defining (Mid Acts) Dispensationalism. And your response here seems to prove my statement that some books are for the church while others aren't. And defining who Revelation is to (in MAD eyes) appears to limit "servants" of Jesus Christ to those of the tribes of Israel. So the question now has become who is the book to (and should we even worry about the warnings) rather than the understanding of idolatry in the context of a church (and specifically, these 7 churches as compared with the references in Acts 15 and I Cor 8). What, then, do you believe the Gentile church can take away from these letters (and, specifically, the references to idolatry and eating food sacrificed to idols)?

                        {I would love to discuss the MAD definition and it's scripturality, but I think it's going to detract from the OP, so I really don't want to get into it here. And I have enough trouble keeping up with the few threads I am involved in, so I don't want to spread myself thin (or start something and then abruptly disappear). }
                        If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

                        The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
                        Jeremiah 17:9

                        Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
                        Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

                        Isaiah 50:10-11

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                          And this is why I was concerned this may not be the thread for this subject - because in my eyes, you have contradicted yourself or misapplied what I concluded (as my understanding of MAD). I said :

                          To which you responded :

                          Now it may be that I wasn't quoting you properly, but what you went on to say seemed to validate exactly what I said. So I'm left spending my time trying to navigate the waters of defining (Mid Acts) Dispensationalism. And your response here seems to prove my statement that some books are for the church while others aren't. And defining who Revelation is to (in MAD eyes) appears to limit "servants" of Jesus Christ to those of the tribes of Israel. So the question now has become who is the book to (and should we even worry about the warnings) rather than the understanding of idolatry in the context of a church (and specifically, these 7 churches as compared with the references in Acts 15 and I Cor 8). What, then, do you believe the Gentile church can take away from these letters (and, specifically, the references to idolatry and eating food sacrificed to idols)?

                          {I would love to discuss the MAD definition and it's scripturality, but I think it's going to detract from the OP, so I really don't want to get into it here. And I have enough trouble keeping up with the few threads I am involved in, so I don't want to spread myself thin (or start something and then abruptly disappear). }
                          Dispensational understanding of the Bible simply lets the Bible speak for itself. When James says that he is writing "to the twelve tribes scattered abroad", it is very clear that he has a specific audience in mind. If you try to apply what James writes to the twelve tribes scattered aboard to someone other than them, you create great confusion. It that understandable so far?

                          God separated Israel from other people for His own purposes. That division is important and the Bible has tons of details regarding it. You cannot just ignore that.

                          When God set aside Israel (temporally), His message also changed per the apostle Paul. Much of modern "Christianity" spends vast amounts of effort trying to prove that this is not true.... but it IS true.

                          When Paul says that there is no Jew nor Greek in the body of Christ, he is most definitely not talking about what was going on before his ministry, nor what will go on when God restores Israel and their kingdom.
                          All of my ancestors are human.
                          Originally posted by Squeaky
                          That explains why your an idiot.
                          Originally posted by God's Truth
                          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                            Dispensational understanding of the Bible simply lets the Bible speak for itself. When James says that he is writing "to the twelve tribes scattered abroad", it is very clear that he has a specific audience in mind. If you try to apply what James writes to the twelve tribes scattered aboard to someone other than them, you create great confusion. It that understandable so far?

                            God separated Israel from other people for His own purposes. That division is important and the Bible has tons of details regarding it. You cannot just ignore that.

                            When God set aside Israel (temporally), His message also changed per the apostle Paul. Much of modern "Christianity" spends vast amounts of effort trying to prove that this is not true.... but it IS true.

                            When Paul says that there is no Jew nor Greek in the body of Christ, he is most definitely not talking about what was going on before his ministry, nor what will go on when God restores Israel and their kingdom.
                            I will make one comment on this. If I were to take James and determine that it was not written to me so I don't need to pay close attention to it (because Gentiles don't have the same role to play as Israel), then I would have ammunition to say that justification by works is for the Jews and justification by faith is for the Gentiles, would I not? After all, James makes reference to Abraham as "our father" in James 2:21 in the context of that very statement. What is keeping me from making that conclusion, then?
                            If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

                            The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
                            Jeremiah 17:9

                            Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
                            Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

                            Isaiah 50:10-11

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                              I will make one comment on this. If I were to take James and determine that it was not written to me so I don't need to pay close attention to it (because Gentiles don't have the same role to play as Israel), then I would have ammunition to say that justification by works is for the Jews and justification by faith is for the Gentiles, would I not? After all, James makes reference to Abraham as "our father" in James 2:21 in the context of that very statement. What is keeping me from making that conclusion, then?
                              No, you are still confusing things.

                              There are Jews and Gentiles involved in BOTH of God's plans.

                              In God's kingdom for Israel on the earth, Jews have the prominent place. You can see that from what the Lord Jesus Christ told them while He was on earth as the minister of the circumcision. Romans 15:8

                              When God set aside Israel (temporarily) that changed. That is why Paul declares that there is neither Jew NOR Greek in the body of Christ. Gal 3:28

                              During this dispensation of His grace freely given there is no distinction. There was before and there will be again.
                              All of my ancestors are human.
                              Originally posted by Squeaky
                              That explains why your an idiot.
                              Originally posted by God's Truth
                              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                                No, you are still confusing things.

                                There are Jews and Gentiles involved in BOTH of God's plans.

                                In God's kingdom for Israel on the earth, Jews have the prominent place. You can see that from what the Lord Jesus Christ told them while He was on earth as the minister of the circumcision. Romans 15:8

                                When God set aside Israel (temporarily) that changed. That is why Paul declares that there is neither Jew NOR Greek in the body of Christ. Gal 3:28

                                During this dispensation of His grace freely given there is no distinction. There was before and there will be again.
                                Then I still don't understand why the letters to the churches need worry about that supposed distinction.
                                If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

                                The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
                                Jeremiah 17:9

                                Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
                                Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

                                Isaiah 50:10-11

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X