Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Food Sacrificed to Idols

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    I think I agree with most of what you said. In light of what you say, how do you assess the relative situations in Pergamos and Thyatira?
    I'm not sure I fully understand your question. Assess Pergamos and Thyatira in relation to what? Each other? The churches in both cities? The believers in both cities? The cities?
    “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    “One and God make a majority.”
    ― Frederick Douglass

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      This is very much "cherry-picking"... to take one verse and ignore the entire rest of the book.
      I hope the irony of that statement isn't lost on you. You will reject certain books because they aren't written (explicitly?) to Gentiles (or by Paul?), and this book opens - telling you precisely who it is to. I think it is very much on point. If the book was written to the Lost Tribes (like James) or something like that, maybe I could see the argument. But the book specifically indicates who it is for.

      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      First, John was one of the 12 apostles that will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. That's a MAJOR clue right there.

      Isa 41:8-9 KJV But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. (9) Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
      A servant of God is not defined (in the NT) by race. He or she is defined by who(m) they serve :

      Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
      ...
      But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.[/I]
      Romans 6:16,22

      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      Those are the servants that are being referred to there.
      There's no exclusivity in the term "servant" that limits it to Jew or Gentile (that I'm aware of). Certainly it is used in some instances to refer to Israelites, but what would one expect from an OT passage?

      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      Secondly, through the 2nd and 3rd chapters you find CONSTANT references to all things Israelite.

      Things like "he that hath the key of David", etc. etc. etc.

      TWICE this phrase is used "which say they are Jews, and are not"... That has nothing to do with the body of Christ and everything to do with Israel.
      There are many, many more of those.[/QUOTE]

      And in the context of MAD, that has some coherence. But you are still left with trying to be firmly convinced that the letter wasn't written to all those in Christ. That is, Revelation 1:1 is the verse that directly identifies that - and there is no clear restriction on "servant".
      If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

      The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
      Jeremiah 17:9

      Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
      Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

      Isaiah 50:10-11

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
        I'm not sure I fully understand your question. Assess Pergamos and Thyatira in relation to what? Each other? The churches in both cities? The believers in both cities? The cities?
        Jesus chastizes both churches for giving place to those who teach/seduce/cast a stumblingblock before others and teach them to eat things sacrificed to idols. But in one church He uses Balaam as the type and in the other He uses Jezebel. Why the difference? What was worse about Thyatira that He even held His tongue in detailing the depths of Satan so as not to defile innocent consciences?

        EDIT : My question goes to the differences in characterization, not wanting to detail the depths of wickedness into which they had sunk.
        If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

        The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
        Jeremiah 17:9

        Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
        Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

        Isaiah 50:10-11

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
          Jesus chastizes both churches for giving place to those who teach/seduce/cast a stumblingblock before others and teach them to eat things sacrificed to idols. But in one church He uses Balaam as the type and in the other He uses Jezebel. Why the difference? What was worse about Thyatira that He even held His tongue in detailing the depths of Satan so as not to defile innocent consciences?

          EDIT : My question goes to the differences in characterization, not wanting to detail the depths of wickedness into which they had sunk.
          I think part of that goes to what Paul experienced in Thyatira. Acts 16 goes into some of what he experienced there and a description of the spiritual condition of the area itself. I don't think we can speak to the characterization without going into the details of the wickedness in each city. Jesus called Thyatira the seat of Satan. That's pretty wicked. I would call it immersed in evil as the businessmen there who owned a devil possessed woman tried to use her to make money off of Paul's and Cyrus' missionary efforts. They got mad enough when Paul stopped her to throw him in jail.

          In relation to evil there are things that a person just can't unsee or unknow once they know them, even if they wish they didn't know what they now know. An example would be Adam and Eve. There are things I got into during my lifetime before I met Jesus that I don't like to go into for just that reason. With relation to knowledge of evil ignorance is bliss. It's a huge mistake to go looking for it to try to understand it.

          As to the differences between Balaam and Jezebel, I think, and this is at least partly supposition on my part, that as evil as Balaam was in his greed, Jezebel was far worse. She used Ahab to corrupt the entire nation of Israel. In other words, between the two of them she was the one wearing the pants, so to speak. If you read those stories she was the one that talked Ahab into murdering Naboth for his vineyard. That was extremely serious as a family's land was to stay in that family forever. Her brand of pagan worship was extremely evil. The temple rites were all about sex and they had priestesses as well as priests. From my understanding all of them, priests and priestesses, were prostitutes. That religion also involved the worship of the dead. All of these things are things God said were an abomination to Him. In my mind Balaam sold out his integrity. Jezebel, the daughter of a pagan king, was just pure evil and most likely had a close connection to the devil himself. I say that partly because of Jesus' comments on Thyatira being the seat of Satan, and the rest on just how evil Jezebel really was.

          I hope this helps. I have to admit to a fair amount of ignorance in this area as I have not studied this in depth nor spent any real amount of time on it like I have in many other areas of Bible study. Your questions were good for me as they have prompted me to study this area in much greater detail than I ever have before. You piqued my curiosity.

          One more thing just occurred to me. Paul called the worship of Diana the worship of demons. She was, as a goddess, a spiritual descendant of Ashtoreth. Ashtoreth was one of Jezebel's gods. Therefore she was directly involved in demon worship. Now you won't find the name of Jezebel directly linked to Ashtoreth, but she was the daughter of the king of the Sidonians. One of the heathen practices of Solomon was the worship of Asthoreth, who the Bible says was the goddess of the Sidonians. 1Kings 11:5 and 1Kings 16:31
          “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
          ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

          “One and God make a majority.”
          ― Frederick Douglass

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
            I hope the irony of that statement isn't lost on you. You will reject certain books because they aren't written (explicitly?) to Gentiles (or by Paul?), and this book opens - telling you precisely who it is to. I think it is very much on point. If the book was written to the Lost Tribes (like James) or something like that, maybe I could see the argument. But the book specifically indicates who it is for.
            I don't reject any book of the book of the Bible. I understand them all in their proper context.

            Blah, blah, blah....

            If you cannot understand what I wrote, there is no use in me continuing.
            All of my ancestors are human.
            Originally posted by Squeaky
            That explains why your an idiot.
            Originally posted by God's Truth
            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
              I don't reject any book of the book of the Bible. I understand them all in their proper context.

              Blah, blah, blah....

              If you cannot understand what I wrote, there is no use in me continuing.
              Sorry...that was my shorthand...I don't think you reject it (i.e. outright) either. But if I understand correctly, you don't believe it's meant for you. Rather, it's meant for Israel. Your response was a one-liner, which led me to believe that the answer was really that simple (i.e. what was for the Corinthians does not carry over to what was for the churches at Pergamos and Thyatira because they were two different audiences written in two ENTIRELY different contexts and so no comparison can be made). If it's more complex than that, then I hope you can expand on it.
              If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

              The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
              Jeremiah 17:9

              Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
              Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

              Isaiah 50:10-11

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                I think part of that goes to what Paul experienced in Thyatira. Acts 16 goes into some of what he experienced there and a description of the spiritual condition of the area itself. I don't think we can speak to the characterization without going into the details of the wickedness in each city. Jesus called Thyatira the seat of Satan. That's pretty wicked. I would call it immersed in evil as the businessmen there who owned a devil possessed woman tried to use her to make money off of Paul's and Cyrus' missionary efforts. They got mad enough when Paul stopped her to throw him in jail.

                In relation to evil there are things that a person just can't unsee or unknow once they know them, even if they wish they didn't know what they now know. An example would be Adam and Eve. There are things I got into during my lifetime before I met Jesus that I don't like to go into for just that reason. With relation to knowledge of evil ignorance is bliss. It's a huge mistake to go looking for it to try to understand it.
                I completely agree with that approach.

                Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                As to the differences between Balaam and Jezebel, I think, and this is at least partly supposition on my part, that as evil as Balaam was in his greed, Jezebel was far worse. She used Ahab to corrupt the entire nation of Israel. In other words, between the two of them she was the one wearing the pants, so to speak. If you read those stories she was the one that talked Ahab into murdering Naboth for his vineyard. That was extremely serious as a family's land was to stay in that family forever. Her brand of pagan worship was extremely evil. The temple rites were all about sex and they had priestesses as well as priests. From my understanding all of them, priests and priestesses, were prostitutes. That religion also involved the worship of the dead. All of these things are things God said were an abomination to Him. In my mind Balaam sold out his integrity. Jezebel, the daughter of a pagan king, was just pure evil and most likely had a close connection to the devil himself. I say that partly because of Jesus' comments on Thyatira being the seat of Satan, and the rest on just how evil Jezebel really was.

                I hope this helps. I have to admit to a fair amount of ignorance in this area as I have not studied this in depth nor spent any real amount of time on it like I have in many other areas of Bible study. Your questions were good for me as they have prompted me to study this area in much greater detail than I ever have before. You piqued my curiosity.

                One more thing just occurred to me. Paul called the worship of Diana the worship of demons. She was, as a goddess, a spiritual descendant of Ashtoreth. Ashtoreth was one of Jezebel's gods. Therefore she was directly involved in demon worship. Now you won't find the name of Jezebel directly linked to Ashtoreth, but she was the daughter of the king of the Sidonians. One of the heathen practices of Solomon was the worship of Asthoreth, who the Bible says was the goddess of the Sidonians. 1Kings 11:5 and 1Kings 16:31
                Thank you. I will have to search that connection out.
                If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

                The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
                Jeremiah 17:9

                Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
                Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

                Isaiah 50:10-11

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                  Sorry...that was my shorthand...I don't think you reject it (i.e. outright) either. But if I understand correctly, you don't believe it's meant for you.
                  The entire Bible is for everyone's learning... but it does NOT all describe everyone... nor is it ALL for everyone's obedience.

                  Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                  Rather, it's meant for Israel.
                  I showed you a number of distinctly and explicitly Israeli things.

                  Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                  Your response was a one-liner, which led me to believe that the answer was really that simple (i.e. what was for the Corinthians does not carry over to what was for the churches at Pergamos and Thyatira because they were two different audiences written in two ENTIRELY different contexts and so no comparison can be made). If it's more complex than that, then I hope you can expand on it.
                  Just read chapters 2 & 3 of the book of Revelation without bias and it's very easy to see the context.
                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                    The entire Bible is for everyone's learning... but it does NOT all describe everyone... nor is it ALL for everyone's obedience.


                    I showed you a number of distinctly and explicitly Israeli things.


                    Just read chapters 2 & 3 of the book of Revelation without bias and it's very easy to see the context.
                    The problem with that idea is that both chapters 2 and 3 are within the context of the rest of the book of Revelation. And nowhere in Revelation does it say that the apostles are the judges. It clearly shows that that God is the judge. John is just relaying a message from God as that is the duty/job of a prophet, and he portrays himself as an observer who is learning about what is going on throughout the book . To get what you do out of chapters 2 and 3 it must be read into the passage for it is clearly not within the overall context of the book of Revelation.
                    “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                    “One and God make a majority.”
                    ― Frederick Douglass

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                      The problem with that idea is that both chapters 2 and 3 are within the context of the rest of the book of Revelation. And nowhere in Revelation does it say that the apostles are the judges. It clearly shows that that God is the judge.
                      Indeed, God is judging the whole world there. But in the end, there are twelve foundations with the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

                      Twelve is the number associated with Israel and the twelve apostles will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

                      It is things like this that make people come up with the crazy idea that the body of Christ is "spiritual Israel".

                      Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                      John is just relaying a message from God as that is the duty/job of a prophet, and he portrays himself as an observer who is learning about what is going on throughout the book .
                      John is ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

                      Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                      To get what you do out of chapters 2 and 3 it must be read into the passage for it is clearly not within the overall context of the book of Revelation.
                      I only used chapters 2 and 3 as examples. The WHOLE book is FULL of many, many more such examples.

                      Rev 21:9-14 KJV And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. (10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

                      Where is Paul in all of this?
                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                        Indeed, God is judging the whole world there. But in the end, there are twelve foundations with the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

                        Twelve is the number associated with Israel and the twelve apostles will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

                        It is things like this that make people come up with the crazy idea that the body of Christ is "spiritual Israel".


                        John is ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


                        I only used chapters 2 and 3 as examples. The WHOLE book is FULL of many, many more such examples.

                        Rev 21:9-14 KJV And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. (10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

                        Where is Paul in all of this?
                        You're reading this into the verses. The churches in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 are Gentile churches planted by Paul and his fellow missionaries for they are the churches found in Asia along the routes of Paul's journeys. Revelation 1:11 Paul's main mission was to the Gentiles so the churches he planted were composed mainly of Gentiles. Yet you want to make them Jewish churches. From what scripture do you get that idea?
                        “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                        ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                        “One and God make a majority.”
                        ― Frederick Douglass

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                          You're reading this into the verses.
                          No, I am not.... I'm reading the verses and can see what they say.

                          Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                          The churches in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 are Gentile churches planted by Paul and his fellow missionaries for they are the churches found in Asia along the routes of Paul's journeys.
                          And just how did you come up with that idea?

                          Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                          Revelation 1:11 Paul's main mission was to the Gentiles so the churches he planted were composed mainly of Gentiles. Yet you want to make them Jewish churches. From what scripture do you get that idea?
                          I simply let the scripture speak for itself.

                          Please explain how this applies to a church of gentiles.
                          Rev 2:9 KJV I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

                          Why would you think that a synagogue has anything to do with the body of Christ?
                          Why is claiming to be a Jew when you are not such a BIG issue that you are called the synagogue of Satan?

                          There are SO many references to Israel's history in chapters 2 and 3 and yet you just brush it off like it's nothing.

                          Just how does "the key of David" relate to the body of Christ? (HINT: It doesn't, it's about Israel's kingdom).
                          All of my ancestors are human.
                          Originally posted by Squeaky
                          That explains why your an idiot.
                          Originally posted by God's Truth
                          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                            The entire Bible is for everyone's learning... but it does NOT all describe everyone... nor is it ALL for everyone's obedience.


                            I showed you a number of distinctly and explicitly Israeli things.


                            Just read chapters 2 & 3 of the book of Revelation without bias and it's very easy to see the context.
                            I have a two-part question for you :

                            Do you believe spiritual promises are made to national/natural Israel? And do you believe those promises are ever of any direct application to the (Gentile) church?

                            You have said that the Bible does not describe or enjoin everyone universally, but the MAD context makes a division such that there appears to be little or no cross-application (i.e. to both Jew and Gentile) unless explicitly indicated. But it seems to me that there are several scriptures that at least imply that such a stark division is not warranted. Romans 2:29 and Ephesians 2:14 being two examples. I can see national Israel being given national promises that can not be ported over to anyone else, but what you seem to be doing in Revelation is using the OT imagery and certain wording to limit the scope of application. Paul called the church the temple of God. Stephen refers to the church in the wilderness in Acts 7:38. Paul frequently reasons and debates with Jews and Gentiles. The term synagogue refers to a gathering. In the LXX it is used in a Gentile context in several places.

                            My point (and I hope you will answer the question) is that seeing OT imagery should not be surprising since the things in the OT were shadows of the real (e.g. Heb 8:5) and unless there is actually Jew and Gentile in Christ, those spiritual things are not simply intended in a Jewish context.


                            Sent from my iPhone using TOL
                            If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

                            The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
                            Jeremiah 17:9

                            Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
                            Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

                            Isaiah 50:10-11

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              In all the years I've been posting on here I have never read a post in which the word Yisra El (Israel) has been used in context and correctly applied.

                              "desiring to be teachers of the Law, understanding neither what they are saying nor that about which they confidently assert". Paul to Timothy.
                              I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

                              "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

                              I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
                              A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
                              If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

                              Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

                              I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                                No, I am not.... I'm reading the verses and can see what they say.


                                And just how did you come up with that idea?


                                I simply let the scripture speak for itself.

                                Please explain how this applies to a church of gentiles.
                                Rev 2:9 KJV I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

                                Why would you think that a synagogue has anything to do with the body of Christ?
                                Why is claiming to be a Jew when you are not such a BIG issue that you are called the synagogue of Satan?

                                There are SO many references to Israel's history in chapters 2 and 3 and yet you just brush it off like it's nothing.

                                Just how does "the key of David" relate to the body of Christ? (HINT: It doesn't, it's about Israel's kingdom).
                                Do you really think that is hard to explain? Let's go see what Paul said about that. You do accept Paul don't you?

                                Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
                                25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
                                26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
                                27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
                                28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
                                29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
                                Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
                                27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
                                28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
                                29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
                                Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
                                9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
                                10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
                                11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
                                Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
                                12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
                                13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
                                14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
                                15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
                                16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
                                17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
                                18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
                                19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
                                20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
                                21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
                                22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
                                I find my position to be fully supported by scripture.
                                “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                                ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                                “One and God make a majority.”
                                ― Frederick Douglass

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X