Barbarian explains:
Sorry, he's in my troll bin for the time being. If you think he actually did something non-trollish, I'd be pleased to discuss it with you, if you'd tell me what it is. But I doubt if anything he can say would invalidate what Jesus, Matthew, and James say.
See my reply to Jerry. You aren't wrong in accepting God's word that we are justified by faith. You are wrong in refusing to accept His word that we are justified by works and not by faith only.
Am I to understand that the person you mentioned didn't bring up anything worth discussing?
[ QUOTE =Jerry Shugart;5361542 ]Since you consider yourself such an expert on what the Bible teaches about what a person has to do to be saved then why do you continue to refuse to give us your interpretation of the meaning of the following words of the Lord and Savior?:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
It's not hard to figure out. James explains it very simply:
James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
So we are justified by faith. And we are justified by works. Your error is not to accept God's word on faith, but rather your refusal to accept God's word on works. In Matthew 25, Jesus very clearly tells you that the way He will decide whether you spend eternity with Him, or with Satan and his angels, depends on your works.
You call yourself a Christian but for some reason you are unable to understand these simple words spoken by Christ.
I don't believe that in Matthew 25, Jesus was speaking only to the Jews. He specifically mentions all nations being judged by their works. That being so, I don't agree with your interpretation.
We are, all of us, justified by faith and by works.
I don't believe that in Matthew 25, Jesus was speaking only to the Jews. He specifically mentions all nations being judged by their works. That being so, I don't agree with your interpretation.
We are, all of us, justified by faith and by works.
James' audience is the Diaspora, the twelve tribes scattered abroad, which are Jews.
His audience DOES NOT INCLUDE GENTILES.
Of course it is, but that does not inherently make us the audience of the letters.
He's not talking to us. Let me clarify.
Read the passage from Romans 2 again more carefully.
Spoiler
Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.For there is no partiality with God. - Romans 2:1-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:1-11&version=NKJV
Romans 2, when taken at face value, seems to contradict Paul's ENTIRE MINISTRY!
Why?
He is not talking to those in the Body of Christ, and he is not speaking of those who have rejected the gospel of grace.
Paul's audience is those who have never heard the gospel, in other words, those who live isolated from God's word.
In this chapter, Paul is not preaching Lordship Salvation. He's speaking of the man without law who has never heard of Moses or Jesus, who only have the law written on their hearts.
The "unsolicited man."
Gentiles, are not part of Israel, by definition.
Not in dispute.
Incorrect.
See above.
See above.
Nope.
Romans 2 is talking to the Jews and those who have never heard any gospel
Paul's entire ministry goes against Romans 2. The ONLY explanation, aside from Peter sneaking in and writing the chapter, is that Paul is NOT speaking to the Body of Christ.
Paul teaches the Gospel of Grace, not grace plus works. Just in chapter 3, the very next chapter, Paul states that the law condemns ANYONE who is under the law, no matter how well they do, they are condemned.
Keep reading, because now that it's a possibility in your mind, even if you reject it, my position that Paul is not speaking to those in the Body of Christ, but instead those in "deepest darkest Africa," is substantiated:
For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them )in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. - Romans 2:12-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:12-16&version=NKJV
I don't see any of your excuses reason to deny what God says in scripture. Jesus says that the people of all nations will be sent to their eternal home depending on whether or not they were merciful to the needy.
I realize you don't think it applies to you. I understand why it's so important for you to deny it.
But since you've read what He says, and will not accept it, we're at an impasse. You may have the last word.
I don't see any of your excuses reason to deny what God says in scripture. Jesus says that the people of all nations will be sent to their eternal home depending on whether or not they were merciful to the needy.
I realize you don't think it applies to you. I understand why it's so important for you to deny it.
But since you've read what He says, and will not accept it, we're at an impasse. You may have the last word.
He's desperately trying to convince everyone that he doesn't read every post of mine and even more committed to his notion that he doesn't reject the plain teaching of the Bible.
Bible says "six days." Barbarian: "Billions of years"
The whole Earth? "Local flood."
Faith alone, by grace? "Works are necessary."
Fortunately, he seems to have given up on this thread, so perhaps we can have a sensible discussion instead of having to wade through "observations" from a blind man.
Unlike you, I actually addressed the verses which you quoted. Your man-made theology is contradicted by the following words of the Lord Jesus Christ:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
I've asked you more than once to give us your interpretation of the meaning of those words and you are either unable to do that or you just flat out refuse to believe His words.
Unlike you, I actually addressed the verses which you quoted. Your man-made theology is contradicted by the following words of the Lord Jesus Christ:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
I've asked you more than once to give us your interpretation of the meaning of those words and you are either unable to do that or you just flat out refuse to believe His words.
He's desperately trying to convince everyone that he doesn't read every post of mine and even more committed to his notion that he doesn't reject the plain teaching of the Bible.
Bible says "six days." Barbarian: "Billions of years"
The whole Earth? "Local flood."
Faith alone, by grace? "Works are necessary."
Fortunately, he seems to have given up on this thread, so perhaps we can have a sensible discussion instead of having to wade through "observations" from a blind man.
He certainly does not understand the following verse because he going about to establish his own righteousness:
"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:3-4).
Barbarian also doesn't understand what Paul wrote here:
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:5).
Barbarian "works" but he doesn't "believe" what the Lord Jesus said in the following verses:
"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
Jesus saves us all on his own, but he tells us he saves those who get his teachings and obeys them.
If one is careful to get Jesus' teachings and obey them, they won't think they have to sell all they have and give it away, for they will know that Jesus said that to those helping him lay the foundation.
If one is careful to get Jesus' teachings and obey those teachings, they won't think that they have to be traveling ministers and go to places where they will get killed.
Obeying Jesus starts by repenting of your sins and this includes believing in falseness.
Jesus saves us when he wants to and that is when he accepts us.
Never give up trying to get saved.
John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.
Luke 8:11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.
You still haven't found the truth of what it takes to be saved because you still not understand, much less believe, the gospel of grace. Could you please tell me your interpretation of the meaning of the following words of the Apostle Paul?:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).
You still haven't found the truth of what it takes to be saved because you still not understand, much less believe, the gospel of grace. Could you please tell me your interpretation of the meaning of the following words of the Apostle Paul?:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).
Just think, for thousands of years the people were taught about God the Father and obeying Him, but now Jesus comes along and says now everyone must believe in Jesus to remain God's.
Here is how Paul defined the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe it:
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved...For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).
Your ideas deny what Paul so clearly says here:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).
Here is how Paul defined the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe it:
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved...For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).
Your ideas deny what Paul so clearly says here:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).
Here is how Paul defined the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe it:
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved...For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).
Your ideas deny what Paul so clearly says here:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).
