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ROMANS 5:1 JUSTIFIED BY FAITH

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  • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
    We have to believe that we have to OBEY this person Jesus.

    No such thing anywhere ever about having to believe that we have to believe and not obey anything.
    According to you the gospel is NOT the power of salvation to all who believe because believing is not enough.

    Please provide the verses which you think that obedience is a requirement for salvation.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      According to you the gospel is NOT the power of salvation to all who believe because believing is not enough.

      Please provide the verses which you think that obedience is a requirement for salvation.
      Prepare yourself for some wild Bible blender smoothies.
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
        According to you the gospel is NOT the power of salvation to all who believe because believing is not enough.

        Please provide the verses which you think that obedience is a requirement for salvation.
        The gospel is about how we have to repent of our sins and have faith that Jesus' blood shed on the cross washes them away.

        Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

        Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
        Oh how I love the Word of God!

        Do not just read the word do it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
          I don't see anything about "justification by faith" which is difficult to understand. Here Paul explains who are justified and in what way they are justified:
          "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).

          All those who believe receive the "righteousness of God" and are "justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

          Of course the believer is redeemed by the Lord Jesus' death upon the Cross (1 Pet.1:18-19).

          If there is something about this that you don't understand just ask me what that might be and I will try my best to answer you.
          Thanks! I'll take you up on that. (Although, as I said before, I wonder if God just wants me to leave the question as a whole alone for now. And also I wonder If I am making a mountain out of a molehill...but here goes...)

          I have found myself humbled and reminded of the saving power of faith and Christs's blood upon studying verses such as Romans 1:16-17 and Romans 5:9 and reading the verses you point out above. All true! However, what I don't see in the Bible is a an explicit explanation of what it means when one believes. What sort of event is this? Is this always fundamentally different from continuing to believe and deepening one's belief with and through God? I also don't see a total deconstruction of its effects. Does being saved by God's wrath, for example, always refer to the final judgement?

          Perhaps I have failed to see certain connections between verses. I know that some of my questions are rather nuanced or maybe even hair-splitting. But when it comes to talking about justification, I don't see a path that avoids a lot of nuance. In addition to trading verses back and forth, people can get into differences in translation and the issue of who is being addressed in each verse or epistle. I don't really buy all of that discussion. It seems too academic and intellectual for the discussion of essential Christian truths. And amidst all the debate, I feel myself turning away from it and asking God to take me in His arms and help me with what really matters. I mean, this is not abnormal, right?

          So at the moment, unless someone can show me a better answer, all I can say to others is that it is God alone who saves and that they must believe, but, due to the risk of leading them astray, I can't give them further knowledge.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by thborn View Post

            So at the moment, unless someone can show me a better answer, all I can say to others is that it is God alone who saves and that they must believe, but, due to the risk of leading them astray, I can't give them further knowledge.
            Jesus saves us all on his own.

            Jesus tells us who he saves.

            He tells us what to do to be saved too.

            Jesus saves those who get his teachings and obeys them.
            Oh how I love the Word of God!

            Do not just read the word do it.

            Comment


            • John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

              Who has done this and do you know how to do this?
              Oh how I love the Word of God!

              Do not just read the word do it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                The gospel is about how we have to repent of our sins and have faith that Jesus' blood shed on the cross washes them away.

                Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

                Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
                The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "repentance" is "a change of mind."

                The gospel, which comes in power and in the Holy Spirit and with much conviction (1 Thess.1:5), is what results in a person changing his mind about God and believing that the Lord Jesus died for their sins and that He rose from the dead.

                Only those who "resist the Spirit" do not have a change of mind and do not believe the gospel which results in salvation.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                  John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

                  Who has done this and do you know how to do this?
                  You missed what He said about the "flesh" later in the same discourse:
                  "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by thborn View Post
                    However, what I don't see in the Bible is a an explicit explanation of what it means when one believes. What sort of event is this?
                    It is called being "born again" or being "born of God."

                    Here is how that happens:
                    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

                    "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

                    When that happens a person knows that the things revealed in the Bible about the Lord Jesus Christ are true:
                    "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).

                    Once a person is born again he receives eternal life which is in Christ Jesus (1 Jn.5:11) and he will never perish:

                    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"
                    (Jn.3:16).

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "repentance" is "a change of mind."
                      We have to change our mind about sin.
                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      The gospel, which comes in power and in the Holy Spirit and with much conviction (1 Thess.1:5), is what results in a person changing his mind about God and believing that the Lord Jesus died for their sins and that He rose from the dead.

                      Only those who "resist the Spirit" do not have a change of mind and do not believe the gospel which results in salvation.
                      We have to do what Jesus says.

                      We have to repent of sins or die and perish.

                      Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
                      Oh how I love the Word of God!

                      Do not just read the word do it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                        You missed what He said about the "flesh" later in the same discourse:
                        "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
                        I miss nothing.

                        The flesh profits you nothing is what Jesus said to those who thought they had to LITERALLY EAT HIS FLESH.

                        Jesus is explaining literally eating his flesh will do nothing for you.
                        Oh how I love the Word of God!

                        Do not just read the word do it.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          We have to change our mind about sin.
                          A person has to first realize that he is a sinner and in need of a Savior. That is what the gospel is all about--That Christ died for our sins.

                          You still refuse to acknowledge the truth of what Paul wrote here:

                          "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

                          According to your mistaken ideas the gospel saves no one because it takes more than believing the gospel in order for anyone to be saved.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                            A person has to first realize that he is a sinner and in need of a Savior. That is what the gospel is all about--That Christ died for our sins.

                            You still refuse to acknowledge the truth of what Paul wrote here:

                            "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

                            According to your mistaken ideas the gospel saves no one because it takes more than believing the gospel in order for anyone to be saved.
                            Everyone has to believe that we have to obey Jesus.

                            For thousands of years people were taught about obeying God the Father, and since Jesus came, we are taught that we have to obey Jesus now to get to the Father.

                            John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through
                            me.

                            John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

                            Jesus accepts those who do right: Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.
                            Oh how I love the Word of God!

                            Do not just read the word do it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                              Everyone has to believe that we have to obey Jesus.

                              For thousands of years people were taught about obeying God the Father, and since Jesus came, we are taught that we have to obey Jesus now to get to the Father.

                              John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through
                              me.

                              John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
                              No one is saying that we shouldn't obey the commandments the Lord Jesus gave us but that is not a requirement for salvation. You still refuse to acknowledge the truth of what Paul wrote here:
                              "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

                              According to your mistaken ideas the gospel saves no one because it takes more than believing the gospel in order for anyone to be saved.

                              Besides that, if it takes obedience to the commandments to be saved then no one would receive eternal life until at the end of a life which has been obedient. But John makes it known that believers already possess eternal life here and now:

                              "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).

                              How obedient to the commandments were you when you were saved? Were you living a perfect, sinless life? If not then how could you be saved by your obedience since we read the following?:

                              "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them"
                              (Gal.3:10).

                              You are deceiving yourself if you think that you kept the commandments good enough to be saved.

                              Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                              Jesus accepts those who do right: Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.
                              Those words were addressed to Cornelius and were in reference to him. But he was not yet saved (Acts 11:13-14).

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                                No one is saying that we shouldn't obey the commandments the Lord Jesus gave us but that is not a requirement for salvation.
                                Jesus says to drink and eat him. We have to eat and drink every day.
                                No such thing as obeying not having to do with salvation.

                                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

                                You still refuse to acknowledge the truth of what Paul wrote here:
                                "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).
                                I have not refused to acknowledge any scripture.
                                I have been explaining that scripture to you many times.

                                Paul was a Pharisee to the old law and the works of the old law being the purification works.
                                He is saying no more of those works.
                                He is not saying we are saved by believing we don't have to obey.

                                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                                According to your mistaken ideas the gospel saves no one because it takes more than believing the gospel in order for anyone to be saved.
                                The gospel is not, "Everyone, just believe that you only have to believe and do nothing else."
                                The gospel is, "Everyone, repent and believe that Jesus' shed blood on the cross washes you clean."

                                We no longer have to do the purification works of the law.
                                We still have to obey God.


                                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                                Besides that, if it takes obedience to the commandments to be saved then no one would receive eternal life until at the end of a life which has been obedient.
                                No. We do some things to get saved, and then we keep doing what Jesus says to stay saved.

                                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

                                But John makes it known that believers already possess eternal life here and now:

                                "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).

                                How obedient to the commandments were you when you were saved? Were you living a perfect, sinless life? If not then how could you be saved by your obedience since we read the following?:
                                Jesus says what to do to get saved.
                                He says to repent of sins and forgive others and to call on him.

                                That is not so hard is it?
                                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

                                "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them"
                                (Gal.3:10).

                                You are deceiving yourself if you think that you kept the commandments good enough to be saved.
                                Why do you use scripture which speaks of the old law? I never ever preach the old law.

                                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

                                Those words were addressed to Cornelius and were in reference to him. But he was not yet saved (Acts 11:13-14).
                                I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Could you explain more what you mean?
                                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                                Do not just read the word do it.

                                Comment

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