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Jesus Cleanses the Temple of His Body Like an Aggressive Moose

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  • #16
    By way of reminder, the way we treat members of the body of Christ is the way we treat Christ. This is true even if those members are not acting Christlike. Courage, brothers and sisters. The Lord will help us in this endeavor.

    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    One of the biggest problems with Churchianity (that is my name for Christianity that is full of myths and confusion) today is focusing too much on "the life of Christ" without consideration for the details of that life.

    This includes:
    • He was a Jew under the law. (Gal 4:4)
    • He was a minister of the circumcision. (Rom 15:8)
    • He would rarely even speak to gentiles and even then only after they acknowledged their subservience to Israel. He called them "dogs" and called their faith great only after they acknowledged that. (Matt. 15:26-28)
    • Jesus taught His disciples to follow the law (Matt 28:20 with Matt 23:1-3).
    • Jesus is never once recorded in scripture of preaching "grace", though he often taught the law.
    • There are many, many more.
    If I understand the gist of this statement correctly, the concern is that we not spiritualize texts and thus lose out on their plain meaning. I agree that it is possible to read things into passages where it is unwarranted. But there are other texts that do have deep meaning below the surface, and I believe this is one of them. John wrote his book, first, to prove that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and second, to pave the way for people to have life in His name (John 20:31). He holds very closely to these two themes, alternating between witnesses testifying about Christ, and teachings that reveal how to enter union with Christ.

    And even within this passage about cleansing the temple there are clues that Jesus had a deeper meaning in mind. The Jews challenged Him for a sign to show His authority to do these things, and He replied, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." However, John records, "But He was speaking of the temple of His body" (John 2:19, 21). Thus, Jesus is the Father's house. And there are places for us to dwell in Him as well (John 15:4). And unless Jesus cleanses us, we have no part with Him (John 13:8).

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      One of the biggest problems with Churchianity (that is my name for Christianity that is full of myths and confusion) today is focusing too much on "the life of Christ" without consideration for the details of that life.

      This includes:
      • He was a Jew under the law. (Gal 4:4)
      • He was a minister of the circumcision. (Rom 15:8)
      • He would rarely even speak to gentiles and even then only after they acknowledged their subservience to Israel. He called them "dogs" and called their faith great only after they acknowledged that. (Matt. 15:26-28)
      • Jesus taught His disciples to follow the law (Matt 28:20 with Matt 23:1-3).
      • Jesus is never once recorded in scripture of preaching "grace", though he often taught the law.
      • There are many, many more.
      You think that Jesus called people "dogs"? You think that's what Jesus was calling the Canaanite Woman?

      Well, wow, did she have a "dogged" response then...

      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...28&version=NIV

      Jesus wasn't calling her a "dog" at all.
      Well this is fun isn't it?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
        You think that Jesus called people "dogs"? You think that's what Jesus was calling the Canaanite Woman?

        Well, wow, did she have a "dogged" response then...

        https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...28&version=NIV

        Jesus wasn't calling her a "dog" at all.
        Are you actually denying what Jesus said? That's exactly what Jesus called her.

        He used the diminuitive form of the word for dog, so more like "doggette", (translated as "little dogs") but he still called her (and the gentiles as a whole) a dog, and he contrasted them being dogs with Israel being the children.

        But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” - Matthew 15:26-27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NKJV




        Strong's g2952

        - Lexical: κυνάριον
        - Transliteration: kunarion
        - Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
        - Phonetic Spelling: koo-nar'-ee-on
        - Definition: a little dog, a house dog.
        - Origin: Neuter of a presumed derivative of kuon; a puppy.
        - Usage: dog.
        - Translated as (count): dogs (4).



        She was asking for food from the Master's table, miracles meant only for the children of Israel.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
          Are you actually denying what Jesus said? That's exactly what Jesus called her.

          He used the diminuitive form of the word for dog, so more like "doggette", (translated as "little dogs") but he still called her (and the gentiles as a whole) a dog, and he contrasted them being dogs with Israel being the children.

          But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” - Matthew 15:26-27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NKJV




          Strong's g2952

          - Lexical: κυνάριον
          - Transliteration: kunarion
          - Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
          - Phonetic Spelling: koo-nar'-ee-on
          - Definition: a little dog, a house dog.
          - Origin: Neuter of a presumed derivative of kuon; a puppy.
          - Usage: dog.
          - Translated as (count): dogs (4).



          She was asking for food from the Master's table, miracles meant only for the children of Israel.
          So, you think Jesus called her a derogatory name and then went on to do her the biggest favour she could (and did) ask for? If anything, Jesus showed that prejudices based on race or creed didn't really fly, the parable of the good Samaritan being an obvious example.
          Well this is fun isn't it?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
            So, you think Jesus called her a ....

            Dog

            Just like it says in scripture

            Silly boy
            Last edited by ok doser; October 5th, 2019, 11:27 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
              So, you think
              What I think has nothing to do with it.

              That's what the text says.

              Jesus referred to her as a dog.

              Jesus called her a derogatory name and then went on to do her the biggest favour she could (and did) ask for?
              Because, as He said literally right after, her faith was so great, therefore He, to use the analogy, fed her scraps from the table, and healed her daughter.

              Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour. - Matthew 15:28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

              If anything, Jesus showed that prejudices based on race or creed didn't really fly, the parable of the good Samaritan being an obvious example.
              Prejudice has nothing to do with it, as was explained by Jesus a few verses earlier:

              But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

              Jesus was sent to the house of Israel.

              The woman was a gentile, therefore He was not sent to her.

              She wanted to partake of that which belonged to Israel (the miracles).

              He ignored her.

              The disciples asked Him to send her away.

              He, still ignoring the woman, said He wasn't sent except to Israel.

              She worships Him, still asking for help.

              He tells her that it's not good to give miracles to those He was not sent to.

              She answers, in a show of faith, that even the gentiles can gain from those miracles.

              He marvels at her faith, and finally gives in, and heals her daughter.

              See how that works?

              Comment


              • #22
                Fascinating

                Artie has so much emotional investment in a politically correct version of Jesus, he baldly denies what's right in front of him on the written page

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                  You think that Jesus called people "dogs"? You think that's what Jesus was calling the Canaanite Woman?

                  Well, wow, did she have a "dogged" response then...

                  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...28&version=NIV

                  Jesus wasn't calling her a "dog" at all.
                  I don't have to rely on what I think, I just let scripture speak for itself.
                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                    What I think has nothing to do with it.

                    That's what the text says.

                    Jesus referred to her as a dog.



                    Because, as He said literally right after, her faith was so great, therefore He, to use the analogy, fed her scraps from the table, and healed her daughter.

                    Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour. - Matthew 15:28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV



                    Prejudice has nothing to do with it, as was explained by Jesus a few verses earlier:

                    But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

                    Jesus was sent to the house of Israel.

                    The woman was a gentile, therefore He was not sent to her.

                    She wanted to partake of that which belonged to Israel (the miracles).

                    He ignored her.

                    The disciples asked Him to send her away.

                    He, still ignoring the woman, said He wasn't sent except to Israel.

                    She worships Him, still asking for help.

                    He tells her that it's not good to give miracles to those He was not sent to.

                    She answers, in a show of faith, that even the gentiles can gain from those miracles.

                    He marvels at her faith, and finally gives in, and heals her daughter.

                    See how that works?
                    What I see is an analogy rather than Jesus directly referring to her with an insulting name. You think that Jesus was actually startled by her response?

                    Tell me something JR, when have you ever referred to someone with a deliberately derogatory term and then done them a huge, altruistic favour immediately afterwards. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say never, right?
                    Well this is fun isn't it?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                      I don't have to rely on what I think, I just let scripture speak for itself.
                      Which it does and it doesn't support your notion that Jesus went around calling people dogs.
                      Well this is fun isn't it?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                        Which it does and it doesn't support your notion that Jesus went around calling people dogs.
                        He called gentiles dogs, not just anyone.

                        He called some of His own people vipers.
                        Last edited by Right Divider; October 5th, 2019, 02:32 PM.
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                          It called gentiles dogs, not just anyone.

                          He called some of His own people vipers.
                          "It"?

                          Where it came to people who were abusing their authority and were pious hypocrites then Jesus did indeed have some choice terms but even then they weren't just insults. He explained just why they were such.
                          Well this is fun isn't it?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                            "It"?

                            Where it came to people who were abusing their authority and were pious hypocrites then Jesus did indeed have some choice terms but even then they weren't just insults. He explained just why they were such.
                            Jesus called gentiles dogs. I'm sorry that you have issues with the Lord's choice of terms.

                            Mat 15:22-26 KJV And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. (23) But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. (24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

                            Who were "the children" that Jesus was contrasting with the "dogs"?
                            All of my ancestors are human.
                            Originally posted by Squeaky
                            That explains why your an idiot.
                            Originally posted by God's Truth
                            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                              Jesus called gentiles dogs. I'm sorry that you have issues with the Lord's choice of terms.

                              Mat 15:22-26 KJV And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. (23) But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. (24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

                              Who were "the children" that Jesus was contrasting with the "dogs"?
                              Jesus did not call the woman a dog, nor did He go around throwing insults at people in general either. I note that you had no response as to when Jesus actually did refer to people in less than complimentary terms either.
                              Last edited by Arthur Brain; October 5th, 2019, 09:57 PM. Reason: typo
                              Well this is fun isn't it?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                                Jesus did not call the woman a dog, nor did He go around throwing insults at people in general either.
                                Yes, He did call her a dog. He called ALL gentiles dogs and she was a gentile.

                                That you can try to turn this scripture on its head is typical of your respect for God's word.

                                Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                                I note that you had no response as to when Jesus actually did refer to people in less than complimemtary terms either.
                                I note that you have problems with plain and clear scripture.
                                All of my ancestors are human.
                                Originally posted by Squeaky
                                That explains why your an idiot.
                                Originally posted by God's Truth
                                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                                Comment

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