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  • #76
    Originally posted by Hobie View Post
    And yet the main theme that people are told is the law is done away with, grace takes care of your sins, don't worry its all fine to keep on sinning.
    Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


    as we are in the but now where the righteousness of God without the law is manifested...

    Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    Where is the righteousness of God revealed today? It is revealed in the gospel of Christ!

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    That is Paul's gospel declared in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV

    1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    Paul preaches that grace through the faith of Jesus Christ's faith to go to the cross for us, die for our sins and God raising Him from the dead is the work of our salvation!

    Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

    Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Trust the Lord believing it (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) to be saved and sealed (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)!
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Hobie View Post
      And yet the main theme that people are told is the law is done away with, grace takes care of your sins, don't worry its all fine to keep on sinning.
      All of my trespasses are forgiven (Colossians 2:13 KJV). Yours aren't?
      2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

      Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Hobie View Post
        Christ came for all who will accept His free gift, not just the Jews.
        For us, He came to die for our sins, be buried and raised again the third day for our justification (Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) which was a mystery (Romans 16:25-27 KJV) and Paul (God's chosen vessel to us Acts 22:21 KJV, Romans 11:13 KJV) tells us why (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

        All of the Bible is FOR us, but it's not all TO us!
        2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

        Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
          The term "other sheep" refers to the Gentiles (Isaiah 56:6-8 and Ephesians 3:6). After Jesus death and resurrection the good news went out into the world, and Christ's sheep among the Gentiles responded to the Good Shepards voice. All who were chosen for eternal life became believers (Acts 13:48).
          We Gentiles, in time past of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John even all the way to Acts 19 can be shown as Gentiles "at that time" being "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" according to Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV so please refrain from using the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV) as proof text of John when Ephesians 3 is a late mystery revealed to and through Paul (who was exclusively given the dispensation of the grace of God to us) which was before not made known to the sons of God, unsearchable and hid in God before Paul. Thank you.

          Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

          Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

          Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

          Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

          Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

          Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

          Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

          Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

          Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

          In your quest to put yourself back there in John, you are failing to rightly divbide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV). Come on, BR.
          2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

          Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by heir View Post
            We Gentiles, in time past of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John even all the way to Acts 19 can be shown as Gentiles "at that time" being "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" according to Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV so please refrain from using the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV) as proof text of John when Ephesians 3 is a late mystery revealed to and through Paul (who was exclusively given the dispensation of the grace of God to us) which was before not made known to the sons of God, unsearchable and hid in God before Paul. Thank you.

            Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

            Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

            Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

            Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

            Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

            Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

            Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

            Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

            Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

            In your quest to put yourself back there in John, you are failing to rightly divbide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV). Come on, BR.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by heir View Post
              We Gentiles, in time past of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John even all the way to Acts 19 can be shown as Gentiles "at that time" being "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" according to Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV so please refrain from using the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV) as proof text of John when Ephesians 3 is a late mystery revealed to and through Paul (who was exclusively given the dispensation of the grace of God to us) which was before not made known to the sons of God, unsearchable and hid in God before Paul. Thank you.

              Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

              Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

              Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

              Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

              Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

              Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

              Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

              Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

              Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

              In your quest to put yourself back there in John, you are failing to rightly divbide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV). Come on, BR.
              From Gotquestions.org

              To understand who the “other sheep” from John 10:16 are, we must begin with the context of the verse and examine the whole passage. We know from many Bible passages that sheep are a symbol of true believers who follow Christ, their true Shepherd. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. If He says that there are “other” sheep, then we must identify the original sheep that the “others” are different from.

              Beginning in chapter 9 of John, we find Jesus discoursing at great length with the Pharisees after He healed a man who was born blind. He compares the man’s simple faith with the unbelief of the Pharisees and condemns them for their willful spiritual blindness. He begins by denouncing the false shepherds of Israel—the blind, self-appointed leaders who drew the people away from the true knowledge and kingdom of their Messiah (John 9:39-41). Then in chapter 10, He explains at great length the nature of true sheep, those who follow the Good Shepherd, sent and appointed by God. True sheep are those who listen to the voice of the Shepherd (v. 3) and follow Him (v. 4) and know Him (v. 14). He can only be speaking here of the true sheep of Israel because, up to that point, His ministry was confined to the sheep of Israel.

              In verse 16, Jesus refers to the “other sheep,” and those can only be sheep that are outside of Israel, in other words, Gentiles. But the Gentiles who would follow Him are no less sheep than the true sheep of Israel. In fact, Jesus makes it clear that the Gentile sheep would also hear His voice and follow Him, and, eventually, there would be only one flock and one Shepherd. This is the mystery of the universal body of Christ, the church, which Paul refers to in Ephesians 3:6, “This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.” A mystery in Scripture is usually something not revealed previously, and this mystery—one universal church with both Jews and Gentiles brought together in one body in the Messiah—was so shocking to the Pharisees that they accused Jesus of being a demon-possessed lunatic (John 10:20-21).

              Paul’s commission from Christ was to “preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ” (Ephesians 6:8) because the Gentiles, the “other sheep,” needed to be brought into the fold of the true Shepherd. Paul explains in Romans 11:16-36 the mystery of the church by using the imagery of a branch (the Gentiles) being grafted into the tree (Israel). Israel has been temporarily set aside until the “full number of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). This is occurring now in the Church Age, but eventually both Jews and Gentiles will live in glorious harmony in the Millennial Kingdom and then in eternity when all true sheep will follow their Shepherd forever as one body.
              He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

              Jim Elliot

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by heir View Post
                The sin/sins issue was settled by the cross...
                Yes, in regard to salvation. But what about a Christian's "walk"?

                Were the following Christians chastened for their sins or not?:

                "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep"
                (1 Cor.11:29-30).

                Do you judge yourself in regard to any sins you have committed since you were saved?:

                "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world"
                (1 Cor.11:31-32).

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                  And yet the main theme that people are told is the law is done away with, grace takes care of your sins, don't worry its all fine to keep on sinning.
                  Would you mind giving us your interpretation of the meaning of the following two verses?:

                  "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any" (1 Cor.6:12).

                  "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not" (1 Cor.10:23).

                  Thanks!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                    "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mt.25:31-34).

                    Do you deny that there will be Gentiles from "all nations" who will inherit the kingdom? If not, then you cannot deny that the Lord Jesus refers to those Gentiles as "sheep."
                    There can be no doubt that Paul never calls believers of any kind sheep in his 13 epistles.

                    The "other fold" in John is NOT referring to gentiles, but to Israelite's scattered into gentile lands. Of this there can be no doubt!
                    All of my ancestors are human.
                    Originally posted by Squeaky
                    That explains why your an idiot.
                    Originally posted by God's Truth
                    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                      From Gotquestions.org
                      I thought you would attempt to respond to this yourself, at the very least, in light of the passages provided. I'm not interested in reading articles by bible blenders.
                      2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                      Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                        Yes, in regard to salvation. But what about a Christian's "walk"?

                        Were the following Christians chastened for their sins or not?:

                        "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep"
                        (1 Cor.11:29-30).

                        Do you judge yourself in regard to any sins you have committed since you were saved?:

                        "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world"
                        (1 Cor.11:31-32).
                        You poor man. This has nothing to do with any one of us as we are not of the 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 KJV. You have no idea what those passages are about in 1 Corinthians 11 or of whom they speak. As to your question, I reckon myself to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

                        Good day.
                        2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                        Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                          if you can't earn your way into salvation, what sin can cast you out of it?
                          You can't earn your way into salvation, but there are many sins that can cast you out from salvation.


                          Ephesians 5:5
                          5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.




                          Galatians 5:19-21
                          19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
                          20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
                          21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.




                          1 Corinthians 6:9
                          9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
                          10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

                          Learn to read what is written.

                          _____
                          The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                          ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by heir View Post
                            You poor man. This has nothing to do with any one of us as we are not of the 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 KJV. You have no idea what those passages are about in 1 Corinthians 11 or of whom they speak. As to your question, I reckon myself to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
                            So these words of Paul addressed to the church at Corinth are not addressed to those in the Body of Christ?:
                            "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1Cor.11:31-32).

                            You say that "This has nothing to do with any one of us as we are not of the 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 KJV."

                            Here is what Paul said at another place in this epistle:

                            "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

                            Do you deny that Paul is referring to the Church, which is His Body?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                              There can be no doubt that Paul never calls believers of any kind sheep in his 13 epistles.

                              The "other fold" in John is NOT referring to gentiles, but to Israelite's scattered into gentile lands. Of this there can be no doubt!
                              Since there will be Gentile believers in "all nations" do you deny that the Lord Jesus refers to these Gentiles as sheep?:

                              "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"
                              (Mt.25:31-34).

                              Paul may not but the Lord Jesus does.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                                • Paul NEVER calls any believer a sheep in his epistles. FACT.
                                Really?

                                Romans 8:35-36
                                35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
                                36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.



                                Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                                Gentiles are NEVER referred to as SHEEP in scripture.
                                Did Paul write Romans to Jews or to Gentiles or to both?

                                Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                                There can be no doubt that Paul never calls believers of any kind sheep in his 13 epistles.
                                You are sure about that?
                                Learn to read what is written.

                                _____
                                The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                                ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                                Comment

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