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  • #76
    Originally posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Bright Raven and betsy123,
    Yes, the Word became flesh John 1:14, as Jesus was the “only begotten of the Father”, not Deity God the Son plus flesh. Jesus was a man, not a Deity. The way the Word became flesh is revealed in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35 where it reveals that God the Father was the father of Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit and Mary was his mother. It does not say that God the Son was shrunk into the womb of Mary. The Word in John 1:1 is a personification similar to the wise woman "Wisdom" in Proverbs 8:27 who was with God in the creation.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    The WORD Became Flesh, means The WORD referred to in Genesis 1, became human.
    We know John refers to Jesus.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
      You still have evaded the question! Who is the Word! I and others need to know.
      The Miltha. The first of all creation for all was created through it. It was given the fullness of the Father, so it is a form of God, a god.

      Note Heb 1 the use of the words "O God", ever ask why it was used in the Greek?

      If you are sincere about going deeper into my views study what I posted. One learns more when they read instead of just posting.


      Peace
      Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

      Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

      Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
        Read Genesis 1: 1-3, and John 1: 1-3. Backtrack and read my post connecting the two.
        Been there, done that many years ago. You prove nothing.


        Peace
        Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

        Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

        Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Jacob View Post
          keypurr,

          Do you accept the book of John?

          Shalom.

          Jacob
          I love the book of John, in Aramaic or Greek to English. However the Greek is not as pure.


          Peace
          Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

          Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

          Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
            You're being inconsistent. You said that Jesus was only in the form of God - but not God. Therefore, if you are going to read this consistently, you have to say that Jesus was only in the form of a servant (not actually a servant). But you have said He was indeed a servant. He was in the form of God and came in the form of a servant in the likeness and fashion of a man :

            Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
            Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
            But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
            And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
            Philippians 2:5-8

            He had the form of God and took on the form of a servant. If one is a likeness only, so is the other. The comparison is being made to show Christ's humility for having one thing and taking on a lower thing. Those two things (form of God and form of a servant in the likeness of man) are comparable since one is a step or two down from the other. Therefore, to say Christ was only in the form of God but not God is to make the comparison as though it is between apples and oranges.

            And as I said in an earlier post, equality with God was what He claimed - and you can't be equal with God yet not God. So saying He was only in the form of God yet not God is to confuse the categories.
            I NEVER SAID THAT JESUS WAS A FORM OF GOD. I said the Miltha, the spirit son, is a form of God. You fail to see that the express image of God is a spirit. Is not God a spirit? It is important to understand that. Now this is the spirit that was sent to dwell in the body prepared for IT in Heb 10:5
            Peace

            John 1:14
            And the Miltha 8 became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw his glory, 9 the glory as the Only-Begotten 10 who is from the Father who is full of grace and truth.

            The form of God was IN Jesus. Jesus is not a form of God, he is a god, given the power of his Father, yet he is a creation.

            My thoughts, accept or reject. Jesus was made Lord by his God.


            Peace
            Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

            Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

            Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by keypurr View Post
              The Miltha. The first of all creation for all was created through it. It was given the fullness of the Father, so it is a form of God, a god.

              Note Heb 1 the use of the words "O God", ever ask why it was used in the Greek?

              If you are sincere about going deeper into my views study what I posted. One learns more when they read instead of just posting.


              Peace
              So Keypurr, what is the meaning of Miltha. And once you have told us that, who is the Miltha?
              He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

              Jim Elliot

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                So Keypurr, what is the meaning of Miltha. And once you have told us that, who is the Miltha?
                Miltha has no direct English equivalent. It can mean "word, Manifestation, Instance or Substance.

                It is a Spirit being BR, the Son of God that God sent. It was SENT to become FLESH in the body prepared for IT

                This is how God was IN Jesus, he sent his Son, his express image, to bring light to us.
                Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                Comment


                • #83
                  For the folks who do not believe in spirits is not your God a spirit?
                  Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                  Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                  Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by keypurr View Post
                    Miltha has no direct English equivalent. It can mean "word, Manifestation, Instance or Substance.

                    It is a Spirit being BR, the Son of God that God sent. It was SENT to become FLESH in the body prepared for IT

                    This is how God was IN Jesus, he sent his Son, his express image, to bring light to us.
                    Sight your reference for the 2nd paragraph and quote it. I did not see one in the Aramaic-English New Testament.
                    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                    Jim Elliot

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Greetings again betsy123,
                      Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
                      The WORD Became Flesh, means The WORD referred to in Genesis 1, became human.
                      We know John refers to Jesus.
                      We encounter the spoken Word of God in Genesis 1:1 not the second person of the Deity. This is the spoken Word by the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. God the Father is the Creator.
                      Genesis 1:3 (KJV): And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

                      Could I ask if you consider the “flesh” of Jesus was “God the Son” transformed from a Divine Being to a human being? Looking at how you understand the word “became”, and I note you may not like the KJV rendition “made”, are you saying that “The WORD Became Flesh” obliterated the connection of Jesus with the flesh of Mary and hence the flesh of David? The Scriptures clearly teach that Mary was the mother of Jesus and hence part of the flesh of Jesus is from Mary and hence he is a descendant of David.
                      Luke 1:31–32 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

                      Trinitarians do not like looking at Matthew and Luke’s record of the conception and birth of Jesus. They like quoting John 1:1 and John 1:14, but they do not link these with Matthew and Luke. Thus they try to fiddle with the word “begotten”. For example in the Athanasian Creed: “The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten”, but I understand they believe this is speaking about Jesus being begotten from or before eternity. Compare the three records:
                      Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
                      Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: [b[therefore[/b] also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
                      John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

                      Trinitarians do not believe that the phrase “the only begotten of the Father” refers to his conception in the womb of Mary, but note the margin of Matthew 1:20 for “conceived”: “GR. begotten”. Jesus is not the transfer of God the Son into the womb of Mary, but he was begotten by God the Father, by the power of the Holy Spirit and as a result he is The Son of God, and Mary is his mother as clearly taught by Luke 1:35.

                      Kind regards
                      Trevor

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by keypurr View Post
                        Been there, done that many years ago. You prove nothing.


                        Peace
                        I'm not trying to convince you.
                        It's not the only piece of evidence (of two or more verses supporting or re-affirming one another).
                        Believe what you want.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by TrevorL View Post
                          Greetings again betsy123, We encounter the spoken Word of God in Genesis 1:1 not the second person of the Deity.

                          This is the spoken Word by the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. God the Father is the Creator.
                          Genesis 1:3 (KJV): And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

                          Could I ask if you consider the “flesh” of Jesus was “God the Son” transformed from a Divine Being to a human being? Looking at how you understand the word “became”, and I note you may not like the KJV rendition “made”, are you saying that “The WORD Became Flesh” obliterated the connection of Jesus with the flesh of Mary and hence the flesh of David? The Scriptures clearly teach that Mary was the mother of Jesus and hence part of the flesh of Jesus is from Mary and hence he is a descendant of David.
                          Luke 1:31–32 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

                          Trinitarians do not like looking at Matthew and Luke’s record of the conception and birth of Jesus. They like quoting John 1:1 and John 1:14, but they do not link these with Matthew and Luke. Thus they try to fiddle with the word “begotten”. For example in the Athanasian Creed: “The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten”, but I understand they believe this is speaking about Jesus being begotten from or before eternity. Compare the three records:
                          Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
                          Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: [b[therefore[/b] also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
                          John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

                          Trinitarians do not believe that the phrase “the only begotten of the Father” refers to his conception in the womb of Mary, but note the margin of Matthew 1:20 for “conceived”: “GR. begotten”. Jesus is not the transfer of God the Son into the womb of Mary, but he was begotten by God the Father, by the power of the Holy Spirit and as a result he is The Son of God, and Mary is his mother as clearly taught by Luke 1:35.

                          Kind regards
                          Trevor

                          We can't really fully describe the Trinity.

                          I don't think THE WORD is a SEPARATE PERSON - even if they are all in One - otherwise, we're worshipping two or three separate Gods.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Trinitarians do not believe that the phrase “the only begotten of the Father” refers to his conception in the womb of Mary, but note the margin of Matthew 1:20 for “conceived”: “GR. begotten”. Jesus is not the transfer of God the Son into the womb of Mary, but he was begotten by God the Father, by the power of the Holy Spirit and as a result he is The Son of God, and Mary is his mother as clearly taught by Luke 1:35.

                            Kind regards
                            Trevor

                            Nothing is impossible with God.

                            If God says Jesus is His only begotten Son - conceived by and borne to a virgin - and He says He and His Son are One and the Same - who can argue with that?

                            What we do know is that, Jesus (God in the flesh) was human. How do we know that? THE SCRIPTURES!

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
                              We can't really fully describe the Trinity.


                              I don't think THE WORD is a SEPARATE PERSON
                              From... whom?

                              - even if they are all in One - otherwise, we're worshipping two or three separate Gods.
                              This needs to be addressed, but I can't address it until I know the answer to my question: Separate from whom?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post

                                Could I ask if you consider the “flesh” of Jesus was “God the Son” transformed from a Divine Being to a human being? Looking at how you understand the word “became”, and I note you may not like the KJV rendition “made”, are you saying that “The WORD Became Flesh” obliterated the connection of Jesus with the flesh of Mary and hence the flesh of David? The Scriptures clearly teach that Mary was the mother of Jesus and hence part of the flesh of Jesus is from Mary and hence he is a descendant of David.
                                Luke 1:31–32 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
                                No. I believe Jesus is GOD HIMSELF, who came to us as a human.

                                Comment

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