HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE

Status
Not open for further replies.

oatmeal

Well-known member
Where does the faithful Christian go when they die? To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And where is He? Seated on the throne.

Dying means that they are dead, not alive.

When we are are absent from the body and present with the lord means we have been gathered together as I Thessalonians 4:13-17 speaks of

That is clear that that until Christ returns we are not with the lord but dead
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
and on that new heart changed from the old one...is now written His Law...now it lives more like Him less like its former self...the sacrifices offered DAILY is of the lips of a confessing mouth now...just like the death to the former self is...daily

that gift reprograms you for the rest of your life...more like Him doing His Will...overcoming, persevering, not going back to your vomit

That gift reboots you to factory settings...lol

It is NOT a one shot deal...sin means off the mark...you keep shooting the rest of your life...to fight the good fight

that is indeed the first reward...but then others come for your good works...”good and faithful servant” as there was still chance for you to not be good or faithful...

It’s just like Matt 24:20 when He instructed prayers to be said for future Sabbaths yet to come and in times of persecution that our flight be not on the Sabbath as fleeing is NOT resting...oh and in winter...He fully expected winters to continue...

Yup keep doing something...REMEMBER?

A sabbatismos remains for His People Heb 4:9

Even James concluded the jerusalem council expecting goyim to keep hearing Moses preached and read in every city on EVERY SABBATH...see? Be faithful...

John reveals “Here are they that KEEP the commandments” not kept or kept once...”and the faith OF Yahushua” not believed once or cried out “LORD! LORD!”

The Bible is an owner’s manual...we dont do what it says in order to get the car...we do what it instructs because we already OWN the car...

So faithfully run the race to the end...your end or the day of His appearing...

I do not see "reprogamming" as gospel. but we are are exhorted to renew our minds. Romans 12:1-3....

Until you recognize the gospels as a work in progress and the Paul's epistles as the result of JC's work, you will not understand God's progression of doctrine
 

clefty

New member
I do not see "reprogamming" as gospel. but we are are exhorted to renew our minds. Romans 12:1-3....
just reminding:

Jer 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

In order that this result occurs:

Psalm 37:31
The law of his God is in his heart; his steps do not falter.

Psalm 40:8
I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your law is within my heart.

Until you recognize the gospels as a work in progress and the Paul's epistles as the result of JC's work, you will not understand God's progression of doctrine

2 Corinthians 3:3
It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

And not dispensed in parts to rapture you from duty...but as it was when the church was in the wilderness ONE LAW for native and goyim alike...
 

clefty

New member
Show me "soul sleep" with references


1 Thess 4:13-18
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:17–18
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.


1 Corinthians 15:20
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

John 11:11After He had said this, He told them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to wake him up.” 12His disciples replied, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get better.” 13They thought that Jesus was talking about actual sleep, but He was speaking about the death of Lazarus. 14So Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,…

Matt 9:24 he said, “Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep.” But they laughed at him.

They still laugh...

Martha didn’t...John 11:24
Martha replied, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."



Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust! For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead

Daniel 12:2Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

So don’t laugh or mock or rationalize or add or

John 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out--those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

They will come out of graves not back from spirits burning or from Abraham’s Bosom motel
 
Last edited:

oatmeal

Well-known member
just reminding:

Jer 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

In order that this result occurs:

Psalm 37:31
The law of his God is in his heart; his steps do not falter.

Psalm 40:8
I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your law is within my heart.



2 Corinthians 3:3
It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

And not dispensed in parts to rapture you from duty...but as it was when the church was in the wilderness ONE LAW for native and goyim alike...

We are no longer under the law for righteousness for is righteousness came by the law then Christ died in vain.

Galatians 2:21
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
1 Thess 4:13-18
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:17–18
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.


1 Corinthians 15:20
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

John 11:11After He had said this, He told them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to wake him up.” 12His disciples replied, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get better.” 13They thought that Jesus was talking about actual sleep, but He was speaking about the death of Lazarus. 14So Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,…

Matt 9:24 he said, “Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep.” But they laughed at him.

They still laugh...

Martha didn’t...John 11:24
Martha replied, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."



Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust! For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead

Daniel 12:2Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

So don’t laugh or mock or rationalize or add or

John 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out--those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

They will come out of graves not back from spirits burning or from Abraham’s Bosom motel

Great verses, thank you for supporting my post
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Please show me where the Bible states that you become a child of God during a random moment of true belief instead of through a lifetime of faithfulness.
Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Those are nice verses, but they do not make any claim that you become saved during a random moment of true belief instead of through a lifetime of faithfulness.
In fact, the verse could have been translated as: "For by grace are ye saved through faithfulness" and still be a faithful translation of the Greek.

faith g4102 πίστις pistis
  1. trust in others, faith
  2. belief in a higher power, faith
  3. the state of being persuaded of something: belief, confidence, assurance
  4. trust in a commercial sense: credit
  5. faithfulness, honesty, trustworthiness, fidelity
  6. that which gives assurance: treaty, oath, guarantee
  7. means of persuasion: argument, proof
  8. that which is entrusted


How long did the thief on the cross have to be a believer?
The thief on the cross remained a believer for the rest of his life.
 

clefty

New member
We are no longer under the law for righteousness for is righteousness came by the law then Christ died in vain.

Galatians 2:21

AGREED...we are no longer under the law...just like the church in the wilderness...imagine that...they WANTED to keep the laws BECAUSE they were were saved...not to become saved...

Abraham because of faith...see? FAITH FIRST...obedience is a result or a by product of that faith...

Noah had faith first...and then began to build the ark...faith without works gets you drowned...

“For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died 1in vain.”

See? you died to the law...the law did NOT die...and so you might live... you were crucified WITH CHRIST...it aint you anymore but HIM IN YOU...and He wants to live as HE DID but now WITH YOU...

And now you live in faith IN HIM HIS WAY...of course you dont set aside His grace...He died for you to HAVE THAT LIFE...THAT LIFE OF FAITH...and its obedience...IF YOU LOVE HIM
 

clefty

New member

Those are nice verses, but they do not make any claim that you become saved during a random moment of true belief instead of through a lifetime of faithfulness.
In fact, the verse could have been translated as: "For by grace are ye saved through faithfulness" and still be a faithful translation of the Greek.

faith g4102 πίστις pistis
  1. trust in others, faith
  2. belief in a higher power, faith
  3. the state of being persuaded of something: belief, confidence, assurance
  4. trust in a commercial sense: credit
  5. faithfulness, honesty, trustworthiness, fidelity
  6. that which gives assurance: treaty, oath, guarantee
  7. means of persuasion: argument, proof
  8. that which is entrusted



The thief on the cross remained a believer for the rest of his life.

Yup...

And had he lived we would have seen fruits that revealed the root of his faith his IN HIM LIFE...repentant and desirous to DO HIS FATHERS WILL...not just LORD! LORD!...as faith without works is dead...

So many here wish to rapture themselves from demonstrating their gratitude...to avoid the persecution and death...the death to self and life IN HIM HIS WAY...as HE INSTRUCTED WE DO IF WE LOVE HIM

TO OBEY makes some so MAD they even claim there are seperate lists of house rules or chores...dispensed to different groups of people dividing the house of Yah...

His people in faith were always with ONE LAW for jew and goyim alike...as it was when the church was in the wilderness...

and now again...neither jew nor goyim IN HIM but a new creature a citizen of Israel...a faithful obedient wife...to a brand new “I DO” contract He demonstrated and taught before He signed and sealed it with His blood and death...NO CHANGES...IF YOU LOVE ME...
 

xfrodobagginsx

Active member
1 Thess 4:13-18
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:17–18
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.


1 Corinthians 15:20
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

John 11:11After He had said this, He told them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to wake him up.” 12His disciples replied, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get better.” 13They thought that Jesus was talking about actual sleep, but He was speaking about the death of Lazarus. 14So Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,…

Matt 9:24 he said, “Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep.” But they laughed at him.

They still laugh...

Martha didn’t...John 11:24
Martha replied, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."



Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust! For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead

Daniel 12:2Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

So don’t laugh or mock or rationalize or add or

John 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out--those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

They will come out of graves not back from spirits burning or from Abraham’s Bosom motel

These verses are referring to physical death. The Bible is clear that our soul is not in the grave after physical death:

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

There are people in heaven during the tribulation:

Re 19:1 ¶ And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

The rich man was in hell, the beggar was in Paradise side of Hades:

Lu 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member

Those are nice verses, but they do not make any claim that you become saved during a random moment of true belief instead of through a lifetime of faithfulness.
In fact, the verse could have been translated as: "For by grace are ye saved through faithfulness" and still be a faithful translation of the Greek.

Not true. If we access grace through our faithfulness, then we could boast of how faithful we are.


Rather, we access God's Grace by faith in the blood.

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​
 

clefty

New member
These verses are referring to physical death. The Bible is clear that our soul is not in the grave after physical death:

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and ISto be present with the Lord.
fixed it to say what you WANT it to say...

Paul is clear when we are with Him that last day, the ressurrection/judgement day, the last trump, at His appearance...

From earthly tents to heavenly building after the resurrection...nothing there about floating as naked spirits not able to touch or eat...but like pagan ghosts and spirits not having flesh or blood...


There are people in heaven during the tribulation:

Re 19:1 ¶ And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
the other phantasms in this vision also literal? There really are multi headed dragons and four horsemen galloping across the skies?...a woman standing on the moon? Or was this vision a teaching tool?

The rich man was in hell, the beggar was in Paradise side of Hades:

Lu 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Yes this popular folktale is often misused told to teach about forgiveness people insist Yahushua uses it now to in the middle of series of parables teach on state of the dead...LOL...

Believe this is literal might as well believe the bread turns to flesh...

His actual literal friend Lazarus died...He said “he sleeps” not a word about being on Abraham’s bosom...but then “dead”...saying something about being with Abraham would be comforting no? I mean He was about comforting people yes? Martha said nothing about his being with Abraham...but of ”resurrection that last day”

NONE of the dead were referred to has having gone to Abraham’s bosom...none of the resurrected were refered to as having been with Abraham...NO gospel account of their stories with Abraham....

Abraham teaching that one risen from the dead would NOT be convincing forgets about the One Who was risen from the dead and convinced many...
 

xfrodobagginsx

Active member
fixed it to say what you WANT it to say...

Paul is clear when we are with Him that last day, the ressurrection/judgement day, the last trump, at His appearance...

From earthly tents to heavenly building after the resurrection...nothing there about floating as naked spirits not able to touch or eat...but like pagan ghosts and spirits not having flesh or blood...


the other phantasms in this vision also literal? There really are multi headed dragons and four horsemen galloping across the skies?...a woman standing on the moon? Or was this vision a teaching tool?



Yes this popular folktale is often misused told to teach about forgiveness people insist Yahushua uses it now to in the middle of series of parables teach on state of the dead...LOL...

Believe this is literal might as well believe the bread turns to flesh...

His actual literal friend Lazarus died...He said “he sleeps” not a word about being on Abraham’s bosom...but then “dead”...saying something about being with Abraham would be comforting no? I mean He was about comforting people yes? Martha said nothing about his being with Abraham...but of ”resurrection that last day”

NONE of the dead were referred to has having gone to Abraham’s bosom...none of the resurrected were refered to as having been with Abraham...NO gospel account of their stories with Abraham....

Abraham teaching that one risen from the dead would NOT be convincing forgets about the One Who was risen from the dead and convinced many...

It's very clear when it says "To be absent from the Body, and to be present with the Lord" means that when we die, we are absent from the body. That means that a Christian's soul doesn't remain in his body, it is present with the Lord. Where is the Lord? In heaven. It's not real hard to understand. They aren't naked either.

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

The Trump sounding isn't the last day. It's the beginning of the rapture and it's very clearly talking about those who are dead in Christ will rise first and those who are alive and remain will be caught up with the Lord. That has nothing to do with people going to heaven before hand.

He used the word sleep as a metaphor as Paul also did when describing the rapture of the Church. Their body is asleep and awaiting redemption, but the soul departs and goes to the Lord. The story of the Rich man and Lazarus is a literal event that happened after both men died physically. He uses proper names and even Abraham is in the story.

Christians go to heaven when they die:

Re 19:1 ¶ And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
 

clefty

New member
It's very clear when it says "To be absent from the Body, and to be present with the Lord" means that when we die, we are absent from the body. That means that a Christian's soul doesn't remain in his body, it is present with the Lord. Where is the Lord? In heaven. It's not real hard to understand. They aren't naked either.

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

The Trump sounding isn't the last day. It's the beginning of the rapture and it's very clearly talking about those who are dead in Christ will rise first and those who are alive and remain will be caught up with the Lord. That has nothing to do with people going to heaven before hand.

He used the word sleep as a metaphor as Paul also did when describing the rapture of the Church. Their body is asleep and awaiting redemption, but the soul departs and goes to the Lord. The story of the Rich man and Lazarus is a literal event that happened after both men died physically. He uses proper names and even Abraham is in the story.

Christians go to heaven when they die:

Re 19:1 ¶ And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

https://www.unlearnthelies.com/do-we-have-an-immortal-soul.html

Wasn’t the devil’s first lie...you won’t surely die?
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Christians go to heaven when they die
No, all the dead and living Christians will meet Jesus in the clouds on His way back to earth

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Then Christians stay with Him on earth and help rule the nations with Him.

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

 

xfrodobagginsx

Active member
No, all the dead and living Christians will meet Jesus in the clouds on His way back to earth

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Then Christians stay with Him on earth and help rule the nations with Him.

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​


No because you are skipping the rapture of the Church. The whole reason that they meet Him in the clouds is because they go up to heaven with Him during the 7 year Tribulation period. It's not until after the Tribulation period that the Christians return to the earth with Him.
 

Dartman

Active member
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

No.

I'm 100% sure that I won't.

And, I am 100% sure that no one else will either.

Jesus is the ONLY... "the first and the last" ... human being to go to God's presence in heaven.

Billions of people have gone to the heaven where birds fly.... including Elijah.... but they all land at the end of their flight .... like Elijah.

There is ONLY one hope for the righteous .... Resurrection from the GRAVE to eternal life "at Christ's coming".... and then inheriting the EARTH.

Don't get me wrong, I am WELL aware that the Scriptures state repeatedly .... our REWARD is in heaven, waiting for Jesus to bring it with him;

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Rev 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

clefty

New member
No, all the dead and living Christians will meet Jesus in the clouds on His way back to earth

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Then Christians stay with Him on earth and help rule the nations with Him.

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​


From a throne they built Him in a temple they made for Him? How do they know it’s Him and not some imposter?

And all His judgements...how do we know they are good?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top