Is God Three?

Apple7

New member
Thats assumed, but if your referring to 1 John 5:7 (the Comma Johanneum), thats not enough support for a trinity, beyond the concept being recognized in a side-note or 'gloss' placed into or alongside the text. We cover that here (see all links).

All other places where John speaks of the logos do not necessarily imply or refer to a 'Trinity' per se, and even in Revelation, there is plenty of references of maintaining a Unitarian Christology, with Jesus still being the Messiah-Son, with all divine titles and appellations afforded him, without him having to be 'Almighty God' himself,...he being the anointed AGENT (agency) and representation/representative of 'God'. (here a man can be called 'elohim' as serving as God's voice, prophet, messenger, etc...since the one who comes to represent and speak for a king, is as being the King himself. -not necessary to con-fuse the two). So, one can interpret these passages EITHER WAY.

No contest really, except what you personally CHOOSE to believe and how you interpret the texts, what theology resonates best with you, etc.


1 John 5.7 is not even on our radar.

Try again...
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
More music................

More music................

1 John 5.7 is not even on our radar.

Try again...

My points still hold. What is left for you is to scrap what you can from writings ascribed to John (at best maybe some points on the logos or Jesus sayings in his gospel...or divine titles, proclamations given in Revelation) that present Jesus as 'God Almighty' (by reverse osmosis or theosis)...or by some way of title, reference or inference, with a slight Christological bias towards a 'trinitarian' position or 'conclusion'.

You're welcome to a Christian Orthodox creedal formulation of the Trinity, it may or may not benefit one, neither is it a necessity to know for salvation, but something 'learned' and assumed as one learns the theology. Its just not the only possible or tenable Christology available, but one that became 'formalized' by the 'church' whose power at that time, made such a formulation the 'standard', because they had the power to do so.

Frankly, the Arian Controversy is old and tired, an artifact if you will of history, but such still holds its interest. On one level, its just a concept, packed with so many implications only relationally speaking. Otherwise, how it can profit a person beyond just some doctrinal convention or relational concept MAYBE enhancing their understanding of God and how he works, well, thats a matter of personal opinion (a tree is known by its fruits). If it enhances your knowledge of God and actually DOES contribute to you being a better person, and producing real spiritual FRUIT in your life, then I have NO PROBLEM with any 'trinity' or combobulation of divine personalities, since stress is made anyways and ultimately that 'God' is ONE. (there's only One divine essence, all other substance, forms or personalities are made of the same god-stuff!).

You know I love spicing the pot, stirring the coals and making important points that readers can judge and evaluate themselves. Hence my commentary speaks for itself, agreements or disagreements aside.
 

Apple7

New member
My points still hold. What is left for you is to scrap what you can from writings ascribed to John (at best maybe some points on the logos or Jesus sayings in his gospel...or divine titles, proclamations given in Revelation) that present Jesus as 'God Almighty' (by reverse osmosis or theosis)...or by some way of title, reference or inference, with a slight Christological bias towards a 'trinitarian' position or 'conclusion'.

You're welcome to a Christian Orthodox creedal formulation of the Trinity, it may or may not benefit one, neither is it a necessity to know for salvation, but something 'learned' and assumed as one learns the theology. Its just not the only possible or tenable Christology available, but one that became 'formalized' by the 'church' whose power at that time, made such a formulation the 'standard', because they had the power to do so.

Frankly, the Arian Controversy is old and tired, an artifact if you will of history, but such still holds its interest. On one level, its just a concept, packed with so many implications only relationally speaking. Otherwise, how it can profit a person beyond just some doctrinal convention or relational concept MAYBE enhancing their understanding of God and how he works, well, thats a matter of personal opinion (a tree is known by its fruits). If it enhances your knowledge of God and actually DOES contribute to you being a better person, and producing real spiritual FRUIT in your life, then I have NO PROBLEM with any 'trinity' or combobulation of divine personalities, since stress is made anyways and ultimately that 'God' is ONE. (there's only One divine essence, all other substance, forms or personalities are made of the same god-stuff!).

You know I love spicing the pot, stirring the coals and making important points that readers can judge and evaluate themselves. Hence my commentary speaks for itself, agreements or disagreements aside.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
 

JudgeRightly

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Yes you did and because translators did...translators who took the name in vain...

Says the one who rejects the deity of Christ.

Tell me, Clefty:

Who should I trust more: You, being some random person on the internet; or the translators (who's knowledge of the scriptures surpasses both your AND my knowledge of it) who's careful study resulted in an accurate translation from the Greek texts to the modern English Bibles we have today?

you claim from silence...

Please tell me how making an observation of what scripture says is an argument from silence.

is on topic...referring to this

Spoiler
Acts 2:38," Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:16, "For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
Acts 10:48, "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
Acts 19:5, "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
Acts 22:16, 'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

And when they had placed them in the center, they began to inquire, "By what power, or in what name, have you done this?" 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers and elders of the people, 9 if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well, 10 let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead--by this name this man stands here before you in good health" (Acts 4:7-10).
Acts 4:17-18, "But in order that it may not spread any further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to any man in this name. 18And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus."
Acts 5:28, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and behold, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us."
Acts 5:40, "And they took his advice; and after calling the apostles in, they flogged them and ordered them to speak no more in the name of Jesus, and then released them."
Acts 8:12, "But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike."
Acts 9:27-28, "But Barnabas took hold of him and brought him to the apostles and described to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had talked to him, and how at Damascus he had spoken out boldly in the name of Jesus. 28And he was with them moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking out boldly in the name of the Lord."
Acts 16:18, "And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour."

The twelve not going to the rest of the world like they were told is not on topic, Clefty. Again, please stay on topic. If you need a reminder on what the topic of the thread is, look at the thread title.

makes sense you dont read scripture right if you cant even recall your own posts...

Trevor, the thread is still there for anyone to read it.

Please don't call me a liar when you can't even show me where I lied.

You said He is YWHW and NOT they those three are YHWH

I said He (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is YHWH. If you can't get the gist of what I'm saying, then maybe you don't understand my argument well enough to make a counterargument.

There's a reason I said "He" when referring to three persons.

The reason is this:

[JESUS]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[/JESUS] - Matthew 28:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew28:19&version=NKJV

Singular name. Three Persons referenced.

Not all three and not all equal...and not what you said...you said “He is YHWH” post 284

You might have meant to say or meant to mean but you said He is YHWH.

I said exactly what I meant to say, Clefty.

The fact that you can't understand what I meant is telling.

The Father has a name the Son His own...the Holy Spirit does not...

And you accuse ME of making an argument from silence?

So by that logic, just because i don't give my name on TOL means my real name isn't my real name. Classic argument from silence.

You're a hypocrite, Clefty.

By people not clear or wishing to deceive...and no never I AM said the Holy Spirit when asked His Name

The Holy Spirit is referred to as God (Acts 5:3-4). God's name is YHWH (Genesis 2:4, + over 6k other verses calling God "YHWH" in the OT). Therefore The Holy Spirit is YHWH.

Argument from silence, HAH! :mock:
 
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