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  • #31
    -
    Originally posted by jamie View Post
    Spiritual bodies are not subject to physical elements such as heat or
    fire.
    The properties of physical elements are not absolute. They are easily
    manipulated by the one who designed them.

    For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but
    left unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback
    while tending his father-in-law's sheep.

    Compare Dan 3:8-27 where a blistering hot fire left totally unscathed
    Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego while slaying the guards that threw
    them in the furnace.

    According to Matt 25:41 and Rev 20:10, spirits can be made to suffer in fire.

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    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
      -
      For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but left unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while tending his father-in-law's sheep.
      Sodom and Gomorrah were in Moab not the Sinai.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by jamie View Post
        Sodom and Gomorrah were in Moab not the Sinai.
        The human mind is produced by a fragile 3-pound lump of flabby organic
        tissue; and not even all three of those pounds are dedicated to cognitive
        purposes. In addition, 60% of that organic lump's mass is fat. So it's to be
        expected that the human mind would play tricks on its host now and again.

        For example: here is a portion of the original text of one of the paragraphs
        in post #31

        "fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but left unscathed
        a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while tending his
        father-in-law's sheep."

        Apparently your fragile 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue fooled you into
        thinking the text says this:


        "the fire that totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah left
        unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while
        tending his father-in-law's sheep."

        According to Gal 3:17, Moses and Abraham lived something like 400 years
        distant from each other; so of course the fire that demolished Sodom would
        not be the same one that blazed in the bush.

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        Comment


        • #34
          What a sick old man! By their fruits yee will know them.

          "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
            He did not answer the question directly, he told the asker to mind what he himself was about.

            The fact is you cain't help somebody onto the strait road until you yourself are on it. Like John Wesley, as soon as he found the road which leads to life he was out after the MULTITUDE who were on the broad road.

            If the scripture is to be answered as you say how come John saw a multitude in heaven which no man could number?

            According to your stats people can be numbered, but of the redeemed says John, no man could number them.
            It is obvious to me that the vast, vast, multitude of those created in HIS image never sinned by their free will choice to be holy and all men are born sinners really means all those who self created themselves as sinners are born as human with the vast bulk of such self created sinners being compromised of the reprobate with the sinful elect comprising a comparative few of the full compliment of sinners.

            Just to show ratios, not real numbers:

            Heavenly people working as angels - 90%
            Sinners on earth 10% with Reprobate =9.5% and sinful elect =.5% but from our pov seeing of only seeing sinners on earth, it looks much like the op suggests, though its conclusions are wrong.

            And also, though we know there can be no spiritual growth from reincarnation, there is also no Christian necessity to deny that the reprobate might reincarnate (why insist they must live lives exactly the same as the good seed, the sinful elect?) and if they return and die over and over then the numbers of the OP are not any indication at all of GOD creating people for the meat grinder, but proof that a trust in re-incarnation bringing true enlightenment (of Christ our only saviour) is a Satanic delusion.

            Just another expression of true stats being mis-interpreted to Satan's use due to a lack of spiritual understanding.
            I Champion GOD’s holiness:
            - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
            - All evil is creature-created.

            I Champion Our Free will:
            - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

            Comment


            • #36
              -
              Through me; the way to the eternal city.
              Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
              Through me; the way to lost people.

              Justice moved my supreme maker:
              I was shaped by divine power,
              By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

              Before me, nothing was created
              That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
              Abandon all hope, you that enter here.

              The Divine Comedy
              by Dante Alighieri
              Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9

              Dante's Divine Comedy is called a comedy because it has a happy ending as
              opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he and Virgil
              pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will
              never, nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance to
              the netherworld: "Abandon all hope, you that enter here."

              Webster's defines "despair' as: to no longer have any hope or belief that a
              situation will improve or change. Well; down in the Inferno section of
              Dante's concept of the netherworld, despair is a way of life.

              Netherworld Update: 9 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
              figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 543,168 new
              arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

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              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by WeberHome View Post

                Netherworld Update: 9 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
                figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 543,168 new
                arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

                =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                Not bad. I can live with those numbers.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
                  -



                  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/SIZE][/FONT]
                  You should also calculate how many go to heaven, and mark the disparity.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    -
                    Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
                    You should also calculate how many go to heaven, and mark the
                    disparity.
                    I wouldn't know where to begin because Christ testified that nobody can
                    enter the kingdom of God lest they first undergo the spirit birth about which
                    he spoke at John 3:3-8. Well; that includes infants, toddlers, and
                    preschoolers. They too have to undergo the spirit birth because Christ
                    testified that the spirit birth is a must.

                    Well; seeing as how infants, toddlers, and preschoolers are too immature to
                    understand the gospel and the consequences for spurning it; then it seems
                    logical to me that they would be warehoused somewhere in the afterlife till
                    they grow up and get old enough to be evangelized. How many of those
                    make the cut is impossible to estimate.

                    It's assumed by just about everybody that innocent little kids go straight to
                    heaven. Well; maybe they do; I don't know. But innocent little kids stay
                    neither little nor innocent. They eventually grow up just like everybody else.

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                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
                      -

                      There's no fleas and allergies in hell due to the absence of pets and vegetation.
                      Why aren't you hear to preach that others can be saved (1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV)? It is the will of God (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV).
                      2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                      Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
                        -


                        I wouldn't know where to begin because Christ testified that nobody can
                        enter the kingdom of God lest they first undergo the spirit birth about which
                        he spoke at John 3:3-8. Well; that includes infants, toddlers, and
                        preschoolers. They too have to undergo the spirit birth because Christ
                        testified that the spirit birth is a must.

                        Well; seeing as how infants, toddlers, and preschoolers are too immature to
                        understand the gospel and the consequences for spurning it; then it seems
                        logical to me that they would be warehoused somewhere in the afterlife till
                        they grow up and get old enough to be evangelized. How many of those
                        make the cut is impossible to estimate.

                        It's assumed by just about everybody that innocent little kids go straight to
                        heaven. Well; maybe they do; I don't know. But innocent little kids stay
                        neither little nor innocent. They eventually grow up just like everybody else.

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                        You have a skewed and warped (sick) view of things. I'm so glad you're completely wrong about everything.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by heir View Post
                          Why aren't you hear to preach that others can be saved (1 Corinthians 1:21
                          KJV)? It is the will of God (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV).
                          Threads like those are a dime a dozen. Borrrrrrreeeeeng!

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                          Comment


                          • #43
                            -
                            †. Luke 13:4-5 . . And what about the eighteen men who died when a tower
                            of Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? No, and I
                            tell you again that unless you repent, you will likewise perish.

                            The koiné Greek word for "tower" in that passage is purgos (poor'-gos)
                            which is an ambiguous word that can mean not only an isolated structure
                            like a skyscraper; but also a special battlement which protrudes from the
                            face of a castle's curtain wall-- consisting of crenellations, merlons, and
                            machicolations --providing occupants a tactical advantage for observing and
                            defending the curtain wall's exterior face. Sometimes though, purgos were
                            simply architectural facades that made otherwise insipid stone walls
                            aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

                            In the days prior to steel reinforcing bar and structural steel beams, purgos
                            (which were often constructed of either stones or bricks or wood) weren't all
                            that stable, and sometimes crumbled; thus detaching themselves from the
                            curtain wall like an old swallow's nest; resulting in pieces raining down on
                            whoever happened to be standing below. The tower depicted in Luke was
                            possibly a decorative part of an architectural enclosure surrounding the pool
                            of Siloam. (cf. John 9:7)

                            The people who were killed when that tower collapsed, weren't killed by the
                            hand of God. No, they were just simply in the wrong place at the wrong
                            time; viz: it was just dumb luck. It's like when people plan all month for a
                            camping trip in the mountains. Upon arrival, they set up camp; and after
                            lunch, walk a hiking trail. Just then, a tree limb, that's been silently growing
                            in the forest for who knows how many years, suddenly decides to snap off
                            and fall to earth right then; subsequently killing one of the campers just as
                            they walk under it.

                            One minute earlier and it would have missed. One minute later and it would
                            have missed. But no, the limb falls right on cue as if the forces of nature
                            conspired to hold that tree limb in place till just the right moment; waiting
                            for that one specific person to walk under it.

                            In a similar incident Friday, Feb 19, 2010 --a centuries-old Mosque minaret
                            in Meknes Morocco collapsed and fell into a crowd of worshippers during
                            prayer time, killing 41.

                            Saturday, June 27, 2010, a 6-month-old baby girl was killed and her mother
                            seriously injured when the pair were struck by a falling tree branch in New
                            York City's Central Park Zoo. The girl's father was taking their picture near
                            the sea lion exhibit when a branch above them suddenly snapped off and
                            fell.

                            On Tuesday, July 3, 2007; nineteen year-old Ramiro Gonzalez was returning
                            home to Nyssa Oregon from a week-end honeymoon in northern California
                            with his bride Idalia asleep in the back seat when their 1997 Pontiac Grand
                            Am hit a cow twenty miles east of Burns. The Pontiac went off the road,
                            through a fence, and burst into flames. Idalia escaped with only minor
                            injuries, but Ramiro died at the Ste. Charles Medical Center in Bend the very
                            next day.

                            Ramiro and his bride didn't get to live in a home of their own for even one
                            single minute of their marriage-- never had a baby, never joined the PTA,
                            never saved for college, never went to ballet lessons, nor to soccer or little
                            league, never went on family picnics, never took home movies and photos at
                            Christmas, Easter, or birthdays, never went to the beach and built sand
                            castles --no, their entire future, and all their dreams of family life, were
                            shattered in an instant by a lame-brained bovine; and Ramiro wasn't even
                            20 years old yet.

                            March 20, 2008; fifty-seven year old Judy Kay Zagorski, of Pigeon, Michigan,
                            was sitting in the front seat of her father's boat going 25 knots on the
                            Atlantic Ocean side of Vaca Key in Florida, when a Spotted Eagle Ray, with a
                            wingspan of 5 to 6 feet; leaped up out of the water-- for who knows what
                            reason --and collided with Zagorski, knocking her backwards onto the deck
                            of the boat. She died from the impact. Judy's sister, standing next to her,
                            was not injured.

                            On a November morning in 1998, Alan Pakula climbed into his Volvo station
                            wagon and began the 100-mile drive from Manhattan to his Long Island
                            house. The acclaimed movie director of Sophie's Choice, All The President's
                            Men, and The Pelican Brief, had made that trip countless times with no
                            incident.

                            As the 70 year-old Pakula neared exit 49 on the Long Island Expressway just
                            before noon, the tires of a vehicle ahead of him flipped a 7-foot piece of
                            steel rod into the air. Within seconds, the rod shot through Pakula's
                            windshield, smashing into his forehead, killing him almost instantly.

                            Death often comes when people least expect it. As a rule, they don't usually
                            get up in the morning planning it to be their last day on earth. The 169,752
                            killed, and 127,294 listed as missing, in more than eleven countries by the
                            tsunami of 2004, were taken by surprise, and given no warning it was to be
                            their last day on earth.

                            The 2,829 people who perished in a terrorist attack on the World Trade
                            Center on September 11, 2001, and the 189 who died in the Pentagon,
                            didn't go in to work expecting their lives to end before lunch that day. No,
                            people's lives often end while they still have obligations and commitments,
                            aspirations, things to do, places to go, and people to see; when a car
                            accident, train wreck, act of nature, plane crash, crime, heart attack, or
                            stroke puts an abrupt end to every plan they ever made.

                            Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010, a 7.0 earthquake struck Port au Prince Haiti right out
                            of the blue subsequently causing the loss of more than 200,000 lives. A
                            similar act of nature on March 11, 2011, left 25,000 dead and/or missing in
                            Japan.

                            Okeechobee woman Dawn Johnston, 38, was killed Wednesday June 30,
                            2010 after part of a portable toilet crashed through her car's windshield.
                            Dawn was driving south on SR 15 shortly after 11 a.m. when two portable
                            toilets fell from the trailer of a pickup truck traveling north,. The portable
                            toilets shattered when they hit the road, and a piece of one of them crashed
                            through the woman's windshield, striking her. Johnston's car then veered off
                            the road and collided with a tree.

                            A rain-saturated hillside above the Stillaguamish River on the outskirts of the
                            rural town of Oso in the State of Washington gave way March 22, 2014
                            leaving behind a current death toll of 41 souls. The landslide happened to
                            suddenly and so rapidly that nobody saw it coming and/or had the slightest
                            chance of getting out of the way. Listed among the dead and missing was a
                            four-month old infant.

                            Freak incidents like those listed above can happen to anybody in the form of
                            a stray bullet from a drive-by, lightening strike, gas explosion, choking on a
                            piece of meat, electrocution, earthquake, a drunk driver, a fall in the bath
                            tub; bricks dropped from an overpass, or any number of out-of-the-blue
                            surprises. I don't think Christ was saying that repentance will protect people
                            from dying in an unexpected incident, but rather, that if they don't start
                            thinking about the afterlife now, while they have the chance; then they risk
                            being caught off guard by sudden death where there will be no time to
                            think; and they'll find themselves suddenly thrust into the afterlife a lot
                            sooner than they ever expected.

                            I was taught in catechism that repentance always means sorrow and regret
                            for one's sins; but I don't think that's what Christ was getting at.

                            The koiné Greek word for "repent" in Christ's statement is metanoeo (met
                            an-o-eh'-o) which means: to think differently; viz: to reconsider-- in other
                            words: to change one's mind and/or change one's direction.

                            I was also taught in catechism that repentance and confession of one's sins
                            are joined at the hip; so to speak. But confession of sins is not the emphasis
                            in Luke 13:4-5; metanoeo is the emphasis.

                            Christ preceded the statement recorded in Luke 13:4-5 with another like it.

                            †. Luke 13:1-3 . .There were present at that season some who told Him
                            about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And
                            Jesus answered and said to them: Do you suppose that these Galileans were
                            worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I
                            tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

                            The record doesn't explain why Pilate executed those men in particular; nor
                            even where the executions took place. But just for brevity's sake, I'll assume
                            for now that those particular men were known insurrectionists, and the
                            executions took place on the grounds of the Temple compound in Jerusalem
                            while the men were there to worship. In other words: the men were pounced
                            upon in a place they would never suspect; and Pilate's soldiers sprung on
                            the Galileans so suddenly and so efficiently that the men had no chance to
                            either escape or to defend themselves.

                            It's at a time like that when your religion of choice had better be the right
                            one because you'll have neither time nor opportunity to reconsider and
                            switch to another.

                            †. Ecc 9:10-12 . . For the time of mischance comes to all. And a man cannot
                            even know his time. As fishes are enmeshed in a fatal net, and as birds are
                            trapped in a snare, so men are caught at the time of calamity, when it
                            comes upon them without warning.

                            Netherworld Update: 12 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
                            the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 724,224 new
                            arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

                            =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              -
                              "Right Back Atcha"

                              I once heard President Obama reply to criticism with almost those exact
                              same words; viz: he didn't deny the truth of the criticism, but instead
                              employed the age-old tactic of accusing his critic of the very same things;
                              which, I guess in his mind; somehow mitigated his own culpability; but the
                              honorable response would have been for him to man-up and admit his
                              conduct was unbecoming rather than stoop to recriminations.

                              It's very common for people to respond to criticism the same way Mr.
                              Obama did. It's all the same as saying: Who are you to talk? Well;
                              regardless of who someone is to talk, if the criticism is true; then it stands;
                              viz: recriminations are futile. All they do is pull someone down with you so
                              you don't go down alone.

                              I predict there's going to be a quite a bit of resentment and indignation at
                              the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 when the dead see
                              people in white who they know to be guilty of the very same things for which
                              they are being sentenced to the reservoir of flaming sulfur.

                              So; how might I describe human nature? I think I could accurately describe
                              it as both judgmental and defensive.

                              †. Rom 2:15 . .Their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one
                              another.

                              Netherworld Update: 15 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
                              the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 905,280 new
                              arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

                              =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Heir: Why aren't you hear to preach that others can be saved (1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV)? It is the will of God (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV).
                                Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
                                Threads like those are a dime a dozen. Borrrrrrreeeeeng!

                                =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                                How could you possibly view what Heir said as boring? It is good news and speaks about the goodness of God. She asked you a very good question.
                                You appear to be fixated on death and destruction. You must think it's more interesting and exciting to focus on the idea of cascading of souls into the pit of hell with endless torture and suffering forever. I find that not only boring but also repulsive.
                                Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness.
                                I am convinced that nothing can separate us from the love of God.
                                All things work together for good to them that love God.

                                Comment

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