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U.S. Christian Population in Freefall

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  • #16
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Trolls are notoriously easy to confuse. Give him a break.
    So, Barbarian is a self-confessed "political Christian."

    Whatever that is.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Stripe View Post
      So, Barbarian is a self-confessed "political Christian."

      Whatever that is.
      he's projecting

      Comment


      • #18
        quip suggested:
        Originally posted by quip View Post
        ...Young adults grew up after the tragedy (of 911) seeing radical religious fundamentalism for the hate mongering, violent, divisiveness it prides itself upon....

        doser spotted an error in quip's reasoning:
        Originally posted by ok doser View Post
        you seriously believe that young people are so foolish that they can't parse out which
        religion was responsible for 911?
        Originally posted by quip View Post
        Religion per se matters not.
        wait, didn't you just blame a decline in Christianity on the actions of radical mooslims who were acting in the name of islam?

        seems to me that religion mattered quite a bit on 911 - one specific religion

        Originally posted by quip View Post
        It's the wholesale rejection of religious dogma in general...
        so you're suggesting that the decline in Christianity is due to the actions of radical mooslims acting in the name of islam, causing americans, unable to differentiate between violent radical moosies and tie-wearing mormons, to reject all religion?

        seems unlikely to me

        Originally posted by quip View Post
        the division, prejudice and hate it inherently fosters.
        division between good and evil, yes
        prejudice against evil and those who perform evil acts, yes
        hate of that which is evil, yes

        Originally posted by quip View Post
        9/11 was religion's crowning achievement
        well, one religion

        Originally posted by quip View Post
        homosexuality, a parochial, close second.
        homosexuality is a crowning achievement of religion?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by quip View Post
          It's the wholesale rejection of religious dogma in general...
          religious dogma like turn the other cheek, thou shalt not kill, honor thy mother and father, do unto others as you would have done unto you?
          Last edited by ok doser; October 21st, 2019, 10:36 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ok doser View Post
            religious dogma like turn the other cheek, thou shalt not kill, honor thy mother and father?
            This guy wrote an interesting essay about the decline of the West, more specifically Europe. He's not a Christian, he's a Stoicist, a former US Marine who speaks seven languages and who is now an attorney. He's comparing the "fighting ideology" of ISIS to the lack of one in Europe. His major point is that ISIS truly believes in their cause and their religion of Islam and that Europe has nothing of comparable belief.

            No one wants to go toe to toe with ISIS, it seems. Everyone is hoping that they will dry up and blow away if we just “cut off their funding” or “provide more training” to the Iraqi military. People who say such things do not fully understand the power of a fanatical, militant ideology. The only way to inspire men to confront ISIS will be to equip them with an ideology of equal conviction and strength. But where will such an ideology be found? Western leaders and populations are apparently incapable of dying for their beliefs. People in the West find it bizarre that someone would die for his religious beliefs because they themselves are craven, effete cowards who have no convictions themselves.

            Even nationalism in the West has evidently lost its luster. Who today can imagine battalions of young Spaniards, Frenchmen, Italians, or Germans willing to sacrifice themselves in combat for an ideal? Why do men fight to the death? For consumerism? For feminism? For the “rights of gender equality”? No. These are not the ideals that inspire militancy in men. And no one is being honest about this. Decades of enervating, demoralizing propaganda by the Western media has hollowed out and destroyed the fighting spirit of the European male.

            It is still an open question whether the West will be able (or is even capable) of producing an ideological response that is sufficiently strong to go toe-to-toe with the ideology of ISIS. Time will tell. So far, the responses have been tepid at best. The West has offered absolutely nothing in the form of an ideological counterweight, perhaps because it has none. All it can offer is consumerism, which is en empty and useless concept when it comes to inspiring men to fight and die. Meanwhile, ISIS continues to exist, to expand, and to spread its militant ideology. In Western Europe, religion is laughed at, morals and behaviors are subject to little or no restraints, cathedrals and churches are like empty tombs, and birthrates continue to decline.

            https://qcurtius.com/2016/03/20/the-...ting-ideology/
            Your problem is not technology. The problem is YOU. You lack the will to change...You treat this planet as you treat each other. - Klaatu

            What are you talking about? There is no such thing as the "Mafia"......it doesn't exist. Just a bunch of lies told to defame honest hardworking Italians like myself. - TomO

            I will do you, let's see, goofy, wacky, and to the left side of the bell curve
            . -Ktoyou

            I'm white. I'm not black. I can't convert to being black. It doesn't matter how much I want to become black. I could listen to rap and date fat white women all day; for all that, I'll still remain white.- Traditio

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            • #21
              Decades of enervating, demoralizing propaganda by the Western media has hollowed out and destroyed the fighting spirit of the European male.
              That was what dictators traditionally count on. It's what Trump counts on

              We should never mistake decency for weakness.
              This message is hidden because ...

              Comment


              • #22
                I have to laugh at the stupidity of the arguments being put forward to "explain" the reduction in numbers of people claiming to be Christians. The main decline is in the younger generations. And those younger generations have been taught by the educational system that Christianity is not only useless, it is evil because it doesn't support homosexuality, transgenderism, abortion, denies evolution, etc.... So, all these years of being taught Christianity is irrational, corrupt, responsible for all war, racism, and hatred have nothing to do with the decline in Christianity in their generations. It's only because of Jerry Falwell and Donald Trump that Christianity is in decline.

                What a joke. It's pure stupidity to make such a claim. It has no connection to reality at all.
                “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                “One and God make a majority.”
                ― Frederick Douglass

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                  I have to laugh at the stupidity of the arguments being put forward to "explain" the reduction in numbers of people claiming to be Christians. The main decline is in the younger generations. And those younger generations have been taught by the educational system that Christianity is not only useless, it is evil because it doesn't support homosexuality, transgenderism, abortion, denies evolution, etc.... So, all these years of being taught Christianity is irrational, corrupt, responsible for all war, racism, and hatred have nothing to do with the decline in Christianity in their generations. It's only because of Jerry Falwell and Donald Trump that Christianity is in decline.

                  What a joke. It's pure stupidity to make such a claim. It has no connection to reality at all.
                  Christianity doesn't "deny evolution", nor is it demonized in education either. Your particular version of it may come in for criticism but there's a difference between fundamentalism and Christianity anyway, certainly the more zealous form of it at any rate.
                  Well this is fun isn't it?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                    Christianity doesn't "deny evolution", nor is it demonized in education either. Your particular version of it may come in for criticism but there's a difference between fundamentalism and Christianity anyway, certainly the more zealous form of it at any rate.
                    LOL. So in your mind people who believe the Bible aren't really Christians. Following Jesus and the Bible is why Christians were first called Christians. Because people like me are following in their footsteps we're not really Christians.

                    You boggle my mind sometimes. Anyone who holds fast to the Bible can't really be a Christian because so many professed Christians have abandoned Biblical positions. Your use of logical fallacies is amazing, especially as you so obviously believe these fallacies. That should tell you something about your critical thinking skills.
                    “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                    “One and God make a majority.”
                    ― Frederick Douglass

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                      LOL. So in your mind people who believe the Bible aren't really Christians. Following Jesus and the Bible is why Christians were first called Christians. Because people like me are following in their footsteps we're not really Christians.

                      You boggle my mind sometimes. Anyone who holds fast to the Bible can't really be a Christian because so many professed Christians have abandoned Biblical positions. Your use of logical fallacies is amazing, especially as you so obviously believe these fallacies. That should tell you something about your critical thinking skills.
                      Your tendency to invent things up that people haven't actually said or implied is kinda mind boggling if hardly amazing. As before, Christianity isn't being taught as useless, nor is there anything "UnChristian" about accepting evolution et al. It's only fundamentalism that has such a hang up with science, homosexuality etc.
                      Well this is fun isn't it?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                        quip suggested:


                        doser spotted an error in quip's reasoning:



                        wait, didn't you just blame a decline in Christianity on the actions of radical mooslims who were acting in the name of islam?

                        seems to me that religion mattered quite a bit on 911 - one specific religion



                        so you're suggesting that the decline in Christianity is due to the actions of radical mooslims acting in the name of islam, causing americans, unable to differentiate between violent radical moosies and tie-wearing mormons, to reject all religion?

                        seems unlikely to me



                        division between good and evil, yes
                        prejudice against evil and those who perform evil acts, yes
                        hate of that which is evil, yes



                        well, one religion



                        homosexuality is a crowning achievement of religion?
                        They don't care about your preference for Chritianity's brand of dogmatism. All they see is the hate, violence and prejudice wrought by religious dogma and sectarianism. The younger generation doesn't care for it, wants nothing to do with any of it. It's a relic of the past...hence Christianity is in decline.
                        _/\_

                        Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                          religious dogma like turn the other cheek, thou shalt not kill, honor thy mother and father, do unto others as you would have done unto you?
                          No. Interesting spin though.
                          _/\_

                          Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                            Your tendency to invent things up that people haven't actually said or implied is kinda mind boggling if hardly amazing. As before, Christianity isn't being taught as useless, nor is there anything "UnChristian" about accepting evolution et al. It's only fundamentalism that has such a hang up with science, homosexuality etc.
                            ****rolls eyes**** Here's what you said:
                            Your particular version of it may come in for criticism but there's a difference between fundamentalism and Christianity anyway, certainly the more zealous form of it at any rate.
                            Your own words say there is a difference between "fundamentalism" and Christianity. Here is what a fundamental is:
                            Fundamental Fun`da*men"tal, a. [Cf. F. fondamental.]
                            Pertaining to the foundation or basis; serving for the
                            foundation. Hence: Essential, as an element, principle, or
                            law; important; original; elementary; as, a fundamental
                            truth; a fundamental axiom.
                            [1913 Webster]
                            So, yes I believe in the foundations of Christianity. I have not abandoned them as much of Christianity has. Those who claim to be Christians and yet deny the fundamentals of Christianity are destroying the foundations of what they profess to believe. The Bible hasn't changed. It still says the same things it has for centuries so why have so many people walked away from it? Because they no longer believe the fundamentals. You know like, all scripture is given by inspiration of God. That is a fundamental truth of Christianity, for if the Bible can't be believed than what use is it? It's just another book that sometimes right and sometimes wrong and nothing to place a person's faith in.

                            People have become so arrogant they think they are the judges of what is true and what is false in scripture. That isn't faith. That's the same thing Adam and Eve did in the garden of Eden. They thought they knew what was right better than God did. All that happened from that thinking is the death, pain, suffering, cruelty, the inhumanity with which man treats his fellow man, and all the self-destructiveness humanity practices on a minute-by-minute basis. That is the result of taking that attitude towards God's word.

                            Tell me, what do you think would change in our world if everyone kept the 10 commandments. Study them and tell me what kind of society we would have as a result. Would we see murder committed on a daily/hourly basis? Would we see dishonest people? Would we be required, just for self-preservation, to lock our doors at night? Could we trust the man on the street? Would we see diseases such as HIV/AIDS, and other STDs? Would all the pain and suffering those diseases cause still affect our society? Would we see people destroying each other's lives over money/wealth? Would we see the broken families and all the pain and suffering brought about by them? Would we need to fear a knife attack while walking the streets of London?

                            The above list can go on almost forever. And these things are the fundamentals of Christianity. They require self-discipline, respect for others and their possessions, and that we truly love our neighbor. I hold these things at the core of my being. I am a fundamentalist. I am not an extremist. I believe what the Bible teaches. If the Bible were followed at a very fundamental level it would transform our world and make it a much, much better place to live. Unless, you think crime, murder, dishonesty, STDs, broken families, etc... are good things that shouldn't go away as they affect our society in positive ways.

                            That is why I am a fundamentalist. Sin is destructive. It causes us to destroy not only ourselves but our neighbors also, and I speak of neighbor in the sense that Jesus meant it in the parable of the Good Samaritan.
                            “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                            ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                            “One and God make a majority.”
                            ― Frederick Douglass

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                              ****rolls eyes**** Here's what you said:

                              Your own words say there is a difference between "fundamentalism" and Christianity. Here is what a fundamental is:

                              So, yes I believe in the foundations of Christianity. I have not abandoned them as much of Christianity has. Those who claim to be Christians and yet deny the fundamentals of Christianity are destroying the foundations of what they profess to believe. The Bible hasn't changed. It still says the same things it has for centuries so why have so many people walked away from it? Because they no longer believe the fundamentals. You know like, all scripture is given by inspiration of God. That is a fundamental truth of Christianity, for if the Bible can't be believed than what use is it? It's just another book that sometimes right and sometimes wrong and nothing to place a person's faith in.

                              People have become so arrogant they think they are the judges of what is true and what is false in scripture. That isn't faith. That's the same thing Adam and Eve did in the garden of Eden. They thought they knew what was right better than God did. All that happened from that thinking is the death, pain, suffering, cruelty, the inhumanity with which man treats his fellow man, and all the self-destructiveness humanity practices on a minute-by-minute basis. That is the result of taking that attitude towards God's word.

                              Tell me, what do you think would change in our world if everyone kept the 10 commandments. Study them and tell me what kind of society we would have as a result. Would we see murder committed on a daily/hourly basis? Would we see dishonest people? Would we be required, just for self-preservation, to lock our doors at night? Could we trust the man on the street? Would we see diseases such as HIV/AIDS, and other STDs? Would all the pain and suffering those diseases cause still affect our society? Would we see people destroying each other's lives over money/wealth? Would we see the broken families and all the pain and suffering brought about by them? Would we need to fear a knife attack while walking the streets of London?

                              The above list can go on almost forever. And these things are the fundamentals of Christianity. They require self-discipline, respect for others and their possessions, and that we truly love our neighbor. I hold these things at the core of my being. I am a fundamentalist. I am not an extremist. I believe what the Bible teaches. If the Bible were followed at a very fundamental level it would transform our world and make it a much, much better place to live. Unless, you think crime, murder, dishonesty, STDs, broken families, etc... are good things that shouldn't go away as they affect our society in positive ways.

                              That is why I am a fundamentalist. Sin is destructive. It causes us to destroy not only ourselves but our neighbors also, and I speak of neighbor in the sense that Jesus meant it in the parable of the Good Samaritan.
                              Hmm, does "loving your neighbour" involve wanting a religious state imposed upon everyone in society where it's lawful to execute people for having homosexual relationships? To punish people for living together without being married? We already have laws that don't make light of murder, theft, rape, violent assault etc and if you think STD's would just magically disappear and everyone would live in a house surounded by a white picket fence with roses on it if your "ideal" were to come about then frankly, get a grip.

                              Fundamentalism is the antithesis of love. It's just strict, dogmatic religionism.
                              Well this is fun isn't it?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                                Hmm, does "loving your neighbour" involve wanting a religious state imposed upon everyone in society where it's lawful to execute people for having homosexual relationships? To punish people for living together without being married? We already have laws that don't make light of murder, theft, rape, violent assault etc and if you think STD's would just magically disappear and everyone would live in a house surounded by a white picket fence with roses on it if your "ideal" were to come about then frankly, get a grip.

                                Fundamentalism is the antithesis of love. It's just strict, dogmatic religionism.
                                That's it. Smack on.
                                It's the extremists, the fundamentalists that are reducing the numbers of folks who want to follow religion.

                                The idea that Christianity is a hardened theocracy of subjection and harsh punishments will drive the people far far away from it.

                                But there will, no doubt, always be true Christians who knew what the real message was...... love and understanding.

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