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William Barr: Religion is Under Attack

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  • #46
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    He would like to stop anything that supports the God-given rights of people he doesn't like. And yes, God gives you the freedom to sin, if you are determined to do so. But that's not what this is about. The curriculum teaches that LGBT people are entitled by the Constitution to the same rights everyone else enjoys.

    That's what has him worked up.
    You failed to quote him saying that he proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas.

    Do you really think that it is the government's place to adopt a LGBT curriculum in public schools?

    Do you really think that kind of curriculum is essential to the education of young children?
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; October 16th, 2019, 08:01 PM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      NOTRE DAME, Ind. (WNDU) - United States Attorney General William Barr spoke at Notre Dame Law School about religious freedom Friday.

      Law students, the De Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture group, and invited guests listened to Barr speak.

      For the last five decades, Barr said religion has been under attack, adding the secular culture is growing.

      "Modern secularists dismiss this idea of morality as otherworldly superstition imposed by a killjoy clergy; but, in fact, Judeo-Christian moral standards are the ultimate utilitarian for human conduct," Barr said.

      He even claimed secular values are being forced on people, especially students.

      "For example, New Jersey recently passed a law requiring schools to adopt a LGBT curriculum that many feel is inconsistent with traditional Christian teaching," Barr said.

      Barr, a devout Catholic, said the "traditional order is shaken" and encouraged the crowd to keep faith and values alive.

      "In other words, religion helps frame a moral culture within society that instills and reinforces moral discipline," he said.

      Meanwhile, outside the courtroom, around 40 people took to the streets to protest Barr's visit to Notre Dame.

      "I heard Notre Dame was hosting Bill Barr for a talk at the law school, and by inviting Bill Barr here, Notre Dame has become complicit within this impeachment conversation," protester Anne Crafton said.

      Protesters were blowing whistles in reference to the whistleblower in the impeachment inquiry.

      "It's unacceptable what [President Donald] Trump has been doing. He's committing treasonous acts, and I am here to show my support for impeachment," Crafton said.

      Back in the courtroom, Barr made a promise in his closing remarks:

      "I can assure you that as long as I am attorney general, that the Department of Justice will be at the forefront of this effort, ready to fight for the most cherished of all our American liberties: the freedom to live according to our faith," he said.
      This is to be expected. The world is a dark, wicked, and sinful place. Wickeness hates the truth. This has always been so. The darker the world gets the brighter the church will shine. By "the church" I mean the body of believers.
      Your problem is not technology. The problem is YOU. You lack the will to change...You treat this planet as you treat each other. - Klaatu

      What are you talking about? There is no such thing as the "Mafia"......it doesn't exist. Just a bunch of lies told to defame honest hardworking Italians like myself. - TomO

      I will do you, let's see, goofy, wacky, and to the left side of the bell curve
      . -Ktoyou

      I'm white. I'm not black. I can't convert to being black. It doesn't matter how much I want to become black. I could listen to rap and date fat white women all day; for all that, I'll still remain white.- Traditio

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      • #48
        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
        Your site didn't name any public schools. Do you have something that actually shows this went on at a public school?
        Not yet, but they are trying. What do you think about teaching homosexuality in a positive light? Should that be done in schools?



        He proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas. Which is contrary to American values and to the rules of his own faith.

        He can speak out on his own time, apart from his duties as the AG, and he's perfectly O.K. When he advocates using government to enforce his beliefs, he's not a good American, and not a good Christian.



        Because I'm an American and a Christian.
        You do realize that obedience to the government is a religious idea, don't you? And particularly a Christian one. Are you saying we should not advocate that people obey authority?

        You do realize that punishing murderers is a religious idea, don't you? Are you saying that if I desire that murderers be punished by governmental authority, then I'm not a good American nor a good Christian?

        You do realize that investigating President Trump for violations of his oath of office or high crimes and misdemeanors is a religious idea, don't you? Are you saying that Congress should NOT force their religious view on the President, if they find out he has done so? I guess you are saying the democrats in Congress are NOT good Americans. I appreciate your honesty!!

        I understand why this would be a foreign concept to most democrats (though hopefully not to you), who believe government, law, and judges, not to mention police, are only there to back them up in case people don't follow them wholeheartedly in the first place. But that, too, stems from a delusion that they are to be considered the prime authority and others must obey--which is a corruption of a Christian idea. Thus, they want to use a Christian idea to promote immoral concepts such as encouraging children to experiment with and engage in homosexuality.
        Last edited by Derf; October 16th, 2019, 11:59 AM.

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        • #49
          Barbarian observes:
          Your site didn't name any public schools. Do you have something that actually shows this went on at a public school?

          Originally posted by Derf View Post
          Not yet, but they are trying. What do you think about teaching homosexuality in a positive light? Should that be done in schools?
          Any mention of homosexuality should be entirely neutral; it is not the function of government to support religions.

          You do realize that obedience to the government is a religious idea, don't you?
          So Diocletian said.

          Are you saying we should not advocate that people obey authority?
          Government has no authority in such matters. It is an usurpation of the rights of citizens, when it attempts to do so, as noted in the Bill of Rights.

          You do realize that punishing murderers is a religious idea, don't you?
          Hard to explain how it was law in officially atheist nations, then.

          Are you saying that if I desire that murderers be punished by governmental authority, then I'm not a good American nor a good Christian?
          If you compare a person's sexual orientation to someone murdering another, that's certainly neither American nor Christian.

          You do realize that investigating President Trump for violations of his oath of office or high crimes and misdemeanors is a religious idea, don't you?
          (Barbarian checks) No, apparently not. The Constitution is not a religious document. In fact, it specifically bans government from any endorsement or suppression of religion.

          Are you saying that Congress should NOT force their religious view on the President,
          Quite true. They should focus only on whether or not his behavior fits "high crimes and misdemeanors."

          I guess you are saying the democrats in Congress are NOT good Americans.
          In all honesty, there's no way to make that story work.

          I appreciate your honesty!!
          Kein Problem.

          I understand why this would be a foreign concept to most democrats (though hopefully not to you), who believe government, law, and judges, not to mention police, are only there to back them up in case people don't follow them wholeheartedly in the first place.
          Barr isn't a democrat. His notion that the law should enforce his religious beliefs is more typical of republicans than of democrats. But that, too, stems from a delusion that they are to be considered the prime authority and others must obey--which is a corruption of a Christian idea.

          If he really was a "devout Catholic", he'd follow the Christian way. Homosexuals should be encouraged to maintain a chaste lifestyle, while they should be free of any unjust discrimination.
          Last edited by The Barbarian; October 16th, 2019, 10:57 PM.
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          • #50
            Hey, Barb, would you mind going through your post and reasserting your quote tabs vs mine?It's a little confusing reading your words attributed to me.

            Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
            Barbarian observes:
            Your site didn't name any public schools. Do you have something that actually shows this went on at a public school?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
              He would like to stop anything that supports the God-given rights of people he doesn't like. And yes, God gives you the freedom to sin, if you are determined to do so. But that's not what this is about. The curriculum teaches that LGBT people are entitled by the Constitution to the same rights everyone else enjoys.

              That's what has him worked up.
              You failed to quote him saying that he proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas.

              Do you really think that it is the government's place to adopt a LGBT curriculum in public schools?

              Do you really think that kind of curriculum is essential to the education of young children?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                You failed to quote him saying that he proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas.
                I just showed you. Would you like to see it again? If he's assailing freedom for others on his own,he's just a bigot. If he's doing it as a government official, he's breaking the law.

                Do you really think that it is the government's place to adopt a LGBT curriculum in public schools?
                It's the public school's place to pass on the values in our Constitution. Not just for LGBT, for them and everyone else.

                Do you really think that kind of curriculum is essential to the education of young children?
                So long as they are threatened by others like Barr, we need to show kids American values.
                This message is hidden because ...

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  I just showed you.
                  That is not true and if you don't know it you are delusional.

                  You never quoted Barr saying that he proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas.

                  The reason why you don't quote him saying that is because he never said such a thing. You make these grand statements which are not true and then when asked to back up what you say with facts you come up empty.

                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  It's the public school's place to pass on the values in our Constitution. Not just for LGBT, for them and everyone else.
                  So the parents of young children should be content to let public school teachers be the ones who tell their children about things concerning sex at an age when it is not appropriate for young children to be told these things?

                  You know, that "it takes a village" crap that is forced upon young children that can do nothing but belittle the authority which belongs to the parents.

                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  So long as they are threatened by others like Barr, we need to show kids American values.
                  So parents should be content to let government officals, who are known for being corrupt, be the ones who teach their children values!

                  All you prove is that you are lacking in common sense if you think that those who run the government are the people who should be teaching our children "values."
                  Last edited by Jerry Shugart; October 17th, 2019, 03:16 PM.

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                  • #54
                    Bill Barr:

                    Click image for larger version

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                    From:

                    Legal Issues in a New Political Order
                    William P. Barr



                    Bill Barr doesn't want separation of Church and State. He wants Church in charge of State.

                    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post

                      It's the public school's place to pass on the values in our Constitution. Not just for LGBT, for them and everyone else.
                      Public schools aren't mentioned in the Constitution. And the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

                      Thus, it is expressly NOT constitutional for the public schools to be delegated the responsibility "to pass on the values in the constitution". At least not delegated by any part of the federal government.

                      Nor are you authorized such delegation.

                      Did you learn that in public school? Somebody's not doing their (non)job.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Derf View Post
                        Public schools aren't mentioned in the Constitution.
                        Northwest Ordinance of 1787. Two months before the Constitution.

                        And the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
                        Amendment XIV requires the states to comply with the Bill of Rights. So it it is the duty of the states to do so.

                        Did you learn that in public school?
                        Yes. One of the benefits of paying attention, is that one remembers such things.

                        Thus, it is expressly NOT constitutional for the public schools to be delegated the responsibility "to pass on the values in the constitution".
                        Wouldn't have been, if not for that amendment. For example, it was until Amendment XIV legal for states to have a religious test for public office. No longer.
                        This message is hidden because ...

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                          That is not true and if you don't know it you are delusional.
                          It's very true. I see Anna has another quote by Barr, deploring that the law prevents him from enforcing a "moral consensus" on people who don't share his beliefs.

                          You never quoted Barr saying that he proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas.
                          He even claimed secular values are being forced on people, especially students.

                          "For example, New Jersey recently passed a law requiring schools to adopt a LGBT curriculum that many feel is inconsistent with traditional Christian teaching," Barr said.


                          He's doing the usual right wing dance; "if you extend freedom to people I don't like, you're taking away my freedom."

                          The reason why you don't quote him saying that is because he never said such a thing. You make these grand statements which are not true and then when asked to back up what you say with facts you come up empty.
                          C'mon Jerry; you know better than this, don't you? No one is fooled.

                          So the parents of young children should be content to let public school teachers be the ones who tell their children about things concerning sex at an age when it is not appropriate for young children to be told these things?
                          Never too young to get "even if other people don't believe what you do, they have the same rights you do, so long as they don't impose on you. And you don't have the right to impose on them." No need to get into details.

                          You know, that "it takes a village" crap
                          That won't play with me, either, Jerry. I grew up in a small town, where every adult was willing to correct a child who was misbehaving or to help one that needed help. And while they wouldn't lay a hand on the kid, he was in for a hard time, when the adult called his parents and told them that he ignored the correction or got smart-mouthed with an adult.

                          that is forced upon young children that can do nothing but belittle the authority which belongs to the parents.
                          A burglar might castigate the schools for teaching kids not to take things that don't belong to them. Just as a homophobic parent might castigate the schools for teaching that homosexuality is not a crime, and that homosexuals have the same rights anyone else has.

                          Respect for others rights and for the law is a fundamental value that schools should teach. It's common sense, Jerry.

                          So parents should be content to let government officals, who are known for being corrupt, be the ones who teach their children values!
                          Parents elect school boards and state legislators. If they do a miserable job of that, whose fault is it? Yep.

                          All you prove is that you are lacking in common sense
                          See above. I'm sure if you stopped to think about it for a bit, you'd figure it out.
                          This message is hidden because ...

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                            Northwest Ordinance of 1787. Two months before the Constitution.



                            Amendment XIV requires the states to comply with the Bill of Rights. So it it is the duty of the states to do so.
                            So you're happy for schools to teach morality and religion, since that was the purpose of that part of the Northwest Ordinance?

                            "Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."

                            Where, pray tell, do you recommend the schools find their teaching for religion and morality?

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Derf View Post
                              So you're happy for schools to teach morality and religion, since that was the purpose of that part of the Northwest Ordinance?

                              "Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."

                              Where, pray tell, do you recommend the schools find their teaching for religion and morality?
                              If today's culture is anything to go by, I'd have to say they'd go with Islam.

                              And unfortunately, I'm not joking.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                                If today's culture is anything to go by, I'd have to say they'd go with Islam.

                                And unfortunately, I'm not joking.
                                Anything to avoid the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin.

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