More news from or about the Left (they're getting crazier and even more corrupted)

[Lon]

Barbarian observes:
No He (Jesus) doesn't. I showed you, clearly, you were wrong. Scripture does say love your enemy and do good to them.

That'd be 'Lon' states. If you 'observed' this would have been the whole:

No He doesn't. I showed you, clearly, you were wrong. Scripture does say love your enemy and do good to them. That DOESN'T mean vetting a Nazi. Are YOU into that? You will have to use a LOT more scriptures to convince me. Go ahead. I'm listening.

(Godwin's law strikes again)

Er, YOU brought up Hitler first :noway:

Alt-Reich: Nation.

(... fans of Hitler

SURPRISED? Who cares about Godwin's law? Are YOU a Godwin fan?

You want to vet Nazis? Where did that come from? Another straw man, um?

:doh: YOU! It came from YOU!

Alt-Reich: Nation.

(... fans of Hitler

lain:

And another one. You brought a lot of straw with you today.

(random stuff from Lon about John Lennon and Germans being Nazis)

You're losing focus, again.

Er, ONE of us is losing.... Ahem lain:
Go figure trying to elicit ANY love for Jesus or fellow Christians from you would get this kind of heartless and frankly mindless accusation.

Don't forget, I told you 'if' you are a heartless nonChristian, I'd give you problems for it on TOL, and I will. "IF" you are going to claim the name of Christ, I EXPECT Christian and will hold you to accounts. If you don't love the Lord Jesus Christ, just say so. Enough of this inane 'debate ploy.' I detest it. It is BENEATH Christians who say they love Jesus. Either stop or I'll HELP you stop it. We are definitely going to see who does and doesn't love the Lord Jesus Christ. That would be the goal, I'd hope, for either of us.

It seems to be a favorite ploy on the far right. No one cares what you think now. If you're a Christian, you're not doing a very good job of following Him. Sometimes, I don't either. But I try my best. And that is what He asks me to do.

No! Stop it! "IF" I bring up loving Him, it IS because I expect loving Him to be the goal. 1) First I appreciate the verse. 2) I said I realized others did say that but it by NO MEANS invited you to try and grade my Christianity for me. Just because 'you' don't like it doesn't mean I'm not doing a good job. Sorry, that ship ain't gonna sail. Now take your medicine. Nobody BUT somebody that cares is going to give it to you. I don't CARE if a Muslim hasn't said such things to you. It doesn't make him/her a good guy. :nono: Not at all. It doesn't mean they love you. STOP equating 'letting me do whatever I want with no reprise' as love. No, Barbarian. No I have not been unloving toward you. You are being two-faced also. You are calling me on the carpet, saying I do a lousy job and in the NEXT breath trying to tell me YOU work on it. If you are trying, try a little harder :think:

1 Corinthians 10:13 Let no temptation take hold on you, but such as is human. And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able: but will make also with temptation issue, that you may be able to bear it.

Good verse. Not sure of the context for it.

I notice you've avoided declaring him.

:nono: Poor choice of words and accusation.

So let's get that out of the way.

This is what Christians believe:

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen

So just tell me that you believe this, and we'll know that you are indeed with Him. Will you do it?

Yes. I hold to the Creed.

You can settle that by verifying that you believe what Christians believe. Will you?

Not sure why you asked the same thing the same way. Yes, I affirm the creed.

Let's take a look...

Uh oh. So I have to agree to YOUR interpretation of it? I 'might' but as you say, let's see :think:

The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honoured by the name of Christian, but who do not however profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.[14] For there are many who hold sacred scripture in honour as a rule of faith and of life, who have a sincere religious zeal, who lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and the Saviour,[15] who are sealed by baptism which unites them to Christ, and who indeed recognize and receive other sacraments in their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them possess the episcopate, celebrate the holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion of the Virgin Mother of God.[16] There is furthermore a sharing in prayer and spiritual benefits; these Christians are indeed in some real way joined to us in the Holy Spirit for, by his gifts and graces, his sanctifying power is also active in them and he has strengthened some of them even to the shedding of their blood.

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH - LUMEN GENTIUM
Promulgated By His Holiness, Pope Paul VI on November 21, 1964

Why then, did you say "I" persecute you and place me as a nonbeliever?

Now, you seem to realize that it was a bad idea to even bring that up, um?

YOU brought it up AGAINST me! :doh:

Aren't you claiming to be a Christian? Jesus said that the world would hate us, and many of you do.

Just affirm the faith and then everyone will know.

Third time a charm? I affirm the creed.

I can oppose people without hating them or even thinking that they are evil. They are, after all, my neighbors.

That is fine. It does NOT mean you have to vet criminal behavior. You CAN be a good neighbor without doing that (more now in a second):

(random stuff about John Lennon and Al Capone)

See? They may be 'neighbors' but loving them does NOT demand you vet them.

If you serve Jesus, then you need to accept that even your enemies are your neighbors, and you need to love them. If you can't do that, you are serving a different master.

GREAT! That does NOT mean giving them your child to murder! THAT wouldn't be loving. It may ALSO mean you say 'no' when they ask to enter your country. That too is NOT an unloving thing.

This obviously troubles you a great deal. And a lot of what you've written is confused and wanders off into other things.

:chuckle: No, it really doesn't. I've called you on your own problematic conveyances. I'm a LOT less lazy than you, however. I've figured out a few of your intents. That's what a caring guy does. A GOOD academic ALSO tries to not blame another for his/her own lack in reading retention.
Simply re-reading you, and a few things are clear. If not, I've asked you. You? Petty and the lesser man for it I told you, I KNOW what my ability is and know what I've conveyed and have not. Better than you too, more than obviously. It means: TRY HARDER. You are simply trying to one-up me again. You can't. Stop it.

Let Jesus be Lord, and it will cease to trouble you.

He IS Lord. There is no 'let' Him be. He already is, even 'if' someone doesn't want Him to be. Won't work: Colossians 1:17 John 15:5

Again, think more before trying to come up with a closer statement. Most of the time they aren't needed. -Lon

 

[The Barbarian]

That'd be 'Lon' states. If you 'observed' this would have been the whole:


Er, YOU brought up Hitler first :noway:

(Barbarian checks) Nope. You were the one who brought up vetting Hitler. And John Lennon, and all sorts of other stuff for whatever reason. Focus.

Er, ONE of us is losing....

If you didn't see this as a contest, you would not be losing.

Yes. I hold to the Creed.

Then you are one of us.

It does NOT mean you have to vet criminal behavior.

Of course we have to. If we don't, criminals get in. Hence, the vetting for all immigrants. This is the real reason that a more realistic immigration policy makes sense.

See? They may be 'neighbors' but loving them does NOT demand you vet them.

Perhaps you don't know what "vet" means in that context. It doesn't mean we let anyone in.

(random stuff about child murderers)

I'm pleased that you seem to now accept that American Muslims are no more inclined to terrorism than other Americans, and you seem to have researched enough to realize that no Syrian refugees from ISIS have committed acts of terror in the United States. So we're making progress.

 

[Lon]

(Barbarian checks) Nope. You were the one who brought up vetting Hitler. And John Lennon, and all sorts of other stuff for whatever reason. Focus.

You can't even be honest? I QUOTED you! :doh:
I did bring up John Lennon, but only for his poor example. There are a LOT of kids, liberals, enamored and several commercial pushes with "Imagine" as the theme song and intent.

If you didn't see this as a contest, you would not be losing.

You are a weirdo. YOU both mentioned and repeated this. Just like 'Hitler' I have likewise responded. Try not to make your thoughts 'my' thoughts. You mentioned losing. You mentioned Hitler. I merely acquiesced both times.

Then you are one of us.

I'm not sure any one creed makes us belong to the Lord Jesus. Remember James? "So does Satan." His point was that even the Devil believes the character of God. Here is a question (sincerely): Do you think Satan believes the creed? I don't think he doubts one iota of it. All I am saying is, there MUST be more to it than that. Agree? It has to be or the Lord Jesus Christ wouldn't have said He will say "Depart from me. I NEVER knew you." These are people that 'think' they know the Lord Jesus Christ and, if like the Creed, they probably do, but the real measure is rather 'if' the Lord Jesus Christ knows us/them. At least, to me, it seems it MUST be something more than the creed.

Of course we have to. If we don't, criminals get in. Hence, the vetting for all immigrants. This is the real reason that a more realistic immigration policy makes sense.

Hold on... You are agreeing with me? I think this is an important thing to have said a few pages back. We were discussing 'smart' love vs 'not so great.' The reason a bleeding heart liberal gets 'bleeding heart' isn't because his heart isn't bleeding, it is because he/she is being accused of not 'thinking' just bleeding. If you agree with me, then your heart can bleed, but intelligently. That said, you'd be more conservative on this as well. However that plays out, if democrats become better thought than simply emoting, that'd be a good thing. Let me ask another question (sincerely): Do you guys own the kids marching in the streets these days? IOW, are they 'liberals' in your mind? Do they 'belong' to your values and as such identity? Is it more democratic? OR are these kids a new definition of something else? It is a 'little' off the beaten path of your and my specific conversation, but it is in line with the OP. Musterion is bringing up 'liberal' problems so, for me, it would be helpful to know (if you are any kind of spokesman for the liberal agenda). If not, just let me know that too. They are learning and discovery questions. We really don't hear much from liberals, just liberal media. Of course they may well be the voice of liberals including the embrace of these wayward kids marching in the streets and such may well be fostered by liberal teachers then college professors later.

Perhaps you don't know what "vet" means in that context. It doesn't mean we let anyone in.

I do know. I have NOT thought democrats know. Why? Because liberals and democrats want to 'vet' illegal Mexicans. By YOUR same token, that too is NOT vetting properly. These aren't and weren't the stellar Mexican citizens or they'd never have circumvented our laws to begin with. That said, Australia wound up being much less than criminal so it doesn't always go bad. I just think we need to be thoughtful about it. Again, you are acquiescing something that you 'seemed' to be against the last couple of pages. I'm happy about it, but it looks a lot less like 'disagreement.' When we first came in, Musterion had been giving data and in my mind 'vetting' is the only real thing any of us can do about Muslims, politically. I think spiritually, we can do much (as it seems you do as well). I suppose contrast is really good, so I'm not displeased over the last few pages, but I think if there is/were a lot of agreement, that too would have been a good thing right off the bat. I mean, how better to respond to a thread like this than "I Barbarian, as a liberal, agree with you, Musterion. Perhaps I'm not 'liberal' on this point for it. :e4e:"

To me, that would have gone a long ways. If congress could do the same. If liberal media could do the same. The us/them partisan isn't helpful if we really can meet minds on some of this. Who better to start such than you or I? :idunno: Maybe it is 'how' we go about vetting from here. I probably shouldn't be encouraged by any bipartisan sentiment. I'm probably TOO much of an optimist (I'm no great politician, by admission).

(random stuff about child murderers)

:nono: It is NOT random, NOR wandering. It is about the vetting process and whether we do it intelligently OR without a thought to that 1/3 statistic you gave. Look, I agree with you that it isn't likely 'my' particular kids will be on the receiving end of bad. They may even be at greater risk from a shark attack (if so, we need to ban surfing THEN worry about banning guns). If you are a spokesman for the liberal agenda, you can speak up from some of these concerns. They ARE thread concerns, thus not at all random. I have a VERY hard time understanding that you aren't making the connections. They are connected to 'consequences' between liberal and conservative thought and policy.

I'm pleased that you seem to now accept that American Muslims are no more inclined to terrorism than other Americans, and you seem to have researched enough to realize that no Syrian refugees from ISIS have committed acts of terror in the United States. So we're making progress.

We 'might' meet a bit, but I think this is jumping too far ahead on actuals. There is a difference between the liberal and conservative agenda. While I am not Republican, I am conservative by most counts. Data is data, but how we address such is equally important. I DO know that many of the Syrians were/are Christians (I'm thinking of churches that vetted them in Canada for instance). For me, the break down is as important. -Lon

 

[The Barbarian]

You can't even be honest? I QUOTED you!

(Barbarian checks) Nope. Never said anything about vetting Hitler. That was yours.

I did bring up John Lennon

That was weird. I have no idea why you pulled him into a discussion of why American Muslims are pretty much like other Americans, or why we haven't had one terrorist attack from a Syrian refugee.

You are a weirdo.

Until now, I never thought you were. But you were the only one who made this about winning or losing. It's why things are hard for you.

I'm not sure any one creed makes us belong to the Lord Jesus.

It makes us Christian. But Christians fail, just like other people.

Remember James? "So does Satan."

James wasn't talking about being a Christian, he was talking about salvation. And he correctly points out that one is justified by works as well as by faith.

Here is a question (sincerely): Do you think Satan believes the creed?

As someone wrote, Satan is a brilliant idiot. He does not realize the majesty of God, which is why he supposed that rebellion against God might succeed.

All I am saying is, there MUST be more to it than that. Agree?

Yes, if faith alone were sufficient, Jesus would not have said that one would have to do the will of the Father to enter Heaven.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm clearly not making you better, Lon. I'm making you worse. So I'm going to let you have the last word, and you can be done with it.

 

[Lon]

(Barbarian checks) Nope. Never said anything about vetting Hitler. That was yours.

:doh: You are being TOO pedantic. You mentioned both alt Reich and Hitler. Point? You brought it all up. If you WANT to talk about Godwin's law, you'd have to point THAT finger at yourself. Me? Don't really care. I don't really care to talk about Alt Reich, Hitler or too much about John Lennon either, seeing how I'm not liberal.

That was weird. I have no idea why you pulled him into a discussion of why American Muslims are pretty much like other Americans, or why we haven't had one terrorist attack from a Syrian refugee.

You MAY not be as liberal as others are? It is worth a spin, especially when you've said you aren't liberal on a few other avenues either. MAYBE there is bad blood prior to my entrance, but I was more concerned with the liberal agenda. You 'seemed' to espouse it and even said you were mostly liberal BUT to me, after reasoning, it looks like you support Trump and Republicans with 'intelligent thoughtful vetting.' :think: MAYBE we don't have much to argue over at such a point.

Until now, I never thought you were. But you were the only one who made this about winning or losing. It's why things are hard for you.

:chuckle: AGAIN, that was you. It was also you that brought up Hitler. The ONLY thing I've brought up without you was John Lennon. He is just the swan singer of the liberal party.

It makes us Christian. But Christians fail, just like other people.

I disagree. Two posts ago you mentioned trusting the Sovereignty of God. Romans 14:4

James wasn't talking about being a Christian, he was talking about salvation. And he correctly points out that one is justified by works as well as by faith.

Er, 'justified' in this sense isn't salvation. It is a 'faith' that is justified. I'm not Catholic so we won't see eye-to-eye on this particular. The 5 solas are important for disagreement.

As someone wrote, Satan is a brilliant idiot. He does not realize the majesty of God, which is why he supposed that rebellion against God might succeed.

Agreement. Who wrote that, btw? :think: (don't give it to much effort if you can't remember, just interested me and thanks).

Yes, if faith alone were sufficient, Jesus would not have said that one would have to do the will of the Father to enter Heaven.

Well we disagree between Protestants and Catholics, but I think it worth the extra thought that those who thought they were doing good things, Jesus never knew. IOW, works weren't sufficient. If we were to take THAT away from James, we'd be wrong. These WERE doing things they thought were right. Important note: I don't agree with all Protestants over James (nor Catholics by one token): I don't believe works are at ALL necessary 'for' salvation, and I don't believe James said ANYTHING about it being a salvation point either. Rather, and disagreeing with others who discount James as written at all to gentiles: I understand James as saying that belief and salvation are always accompanied by the indwelling of the Lord Jesus Christ, thus the outcome WILL be fruit. I realize James' wording is somewhat different than that but this does fit the text imho. Nevertheless, It isn't the Catholic or most Protestant's position concerning James, it is just what I particularly believe. While I'm adamant, it may not be worth someone's time because it doesn't reflect necessarily, everybody else's theology position over the matter. For whatever that is worth. -Lon

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Matthew 7:22 According to both verses, 'works' neither. So neither 'Lord Lord' NOR 'good works, in and of themselves. NEITHER.

Rather, 'Father's will.'Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.

From the first of the chapter, His words aren't 'works.' Rather Matthew 7:1, not being judgmental, 7:6 don't cast your pearls 7:7 seek all things from God etc: "Father's Will."

Ephesians 2:10 assures that 'works' are God's works in a believers life. It is one subsumed by God only that CAN produce works. Thus, my understanding of James is works, but NOT James' works or your or my works: God's works. Philippians 2:13