Evolution and its effects.

[Gary K]

That's been going on long before Christians even before the agreement on the Bible. A few interpret Genesis as a literal history. Most Christians don't.

But it's not something that will cost anyone his salvation unless he demands that all Christians must believe it as he does.

You remember what Jesus said? When the Son of man comes will he find faith on the earth?

John Calvin, John Wesley, Martin Luther, Melancthon, and John Knox all stood for a young earth and a literal 6 day creation. The Protestant reformers stood on the word of God. It was God's word and God's word alone which they believed and taught.

I have to laugh at your argument against believing Josephus. He was a historian, not a theologian, and he is widely considered to have accurately recorded the history of the Jews. As such I quoted him as he is an authority on ancient Jewish beliefs and history. You can keep on saying he's not believable, but his writings are still published and read because he was known tell the truth. But, that won't matter to you.

 

[ok doser]

You remember what Jesus said? When the Son of man comes will he find faith on the earth?

John Calvin, John Wesley, Martin Luther, Melancthon, and John Knox all stood for a young earth and a literal 6 day creation. The Protestant reformers stood on the word of God. It was God's word and God's word alone which they believed and taught.

I have to laugh at your argument against believing Josephus. He was a historian, not a theologian, and he is widely considered to have accurately recorded the history of the Jews. As such I quoted him as he is an authority on ancient Jewish beliefs and history. You can keep on saying he's not believable, but his writings are still published and read because he was known tell the truth. But, that won't matter to you.

barbie is determined to paint biblical literalism as a modern construct and smear it by association with SDA

 

[Stripe]

barbie is determined to paint biblical literalism as a modern construct and smear it by association with SDA

It's the only play he has. He knows that any decent look at scripture tears his silly ideas asunder.

 

[Gary K]

barbie is determined to paint biblical literalism as a modern construct and smear it by association with SDA

Yeah. It's that in a nutshell. It's interesting that he is smearing them for they have historically been known as "the people of the Book" for their close reliance upon the Bible.

Elsewhere I quoted from a small book written back in the mid 1800s by NN Whiting on how neology(rationalism) crept into the church and destroyed faith in God's word. It grew out of the French revolution and their deification of "the Goddess of Reason" which replaced faith in the word of God with secular reasoning and held that up as the ultimate in truth. It attacked the concepts of inspiration, faith, miracles, the divinity of Christ, etc.... and replaced them with cynicism and distrust of God and His word. If you want to see the direct descendents of the rationalists of the 1700s take a look at "The Jesus Seminar". They openly defy scripture and were behind the creation of a politically correct version of the Bible titled Twentieth Century New Testament in which they inserted support for a bunch of the socialist agenda. I researched members of the team that produced it and they were all socialist activists pretending to be Christians, which is how I see Barbie.

 

[The Barbarian]

You remember what Jesus said? When the Son of man comes will he find faith on the earth?

I would think so.

John Calvin, John Wesley, Martin Luther, Melancthon, and John Knox all stood for a young earth and a literal 6 day creation.

A group of men against one God. They lose.

I have to laugh at your argument against believing Josephus.

As you seem to realize, he was a historian, not a theologian.

Josephus, who lived just a day or two before Ellen White was born, confirms the literal six day account of creation in his writings.

Barbarian observes:
Josephus also believed that the Jews should acknowledge Rome as the highest authority in their lives. So there is that.

You know, back in 70 A.D.

Barbarian observes:
Yep. Josephus, like so many others, thought that the Messiah would be a political leader who formed a kingdom here on Earth. When that didn't pan out, he joined with Rome. Jesus's followers took a different path.

As such I quoted him as he is an authority on ancient Jewish beliefs and history.

Many other Jews were also looking for a political Messiah who would have a kingdom of this Earth. But they were wrong.

You can keep on saying he's not believable

I didn't say he was not believable. I pointed out that he was wrong.

He initially fought against the Romans during the First Jewish–Roman War as head of Jewish forces in Galilee, until surrendering in 67 CE to Roman forces led by Vespasian after the six-week siege of Jotapata. Josephus claimed the Jewish Messianic prophecies that initiated the First Roman-Jewish War made reference to Vespasian becoming Emperor of Rome. In response Vespasian decided to keep Josephus as a slave and presumably interpreter. After Vespasian became Emperor in 69 CE, he granted Josephus his freedom, at which time Josephus assumed the emperor's family name of Flavius.[6]

Flavius Josephus fully defected to the Roman side and was granted Roman citizenship. He became an advisor and friend of Vespasian's son Titus, serving as his translator when Titus led the Siege of Jerusalem. Since the siege proved ineffective at stopping the Jewish revolt, the city's destruction and the looting and destruction of Herod's Temple (Second Temple) soon followed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

But, that won't matter to you.

Who would have thought that God was predicting Vespasian would be emperor of Rome?

 

[ok doser]

Yeah. It's that in a nutshell. It's interesting that he is smearing them for they have historically been known as "the people of the Book" for their close reliance upon the Bible.

Elsewhere I quoted from a small book written back in the mid 1800s by NN Whiting on how neology(rationalism) crept into the church and destroyed faith in God's word. It grew out of the French revolution and their deification of "the Goddess of Reason" which replaced faith in the word of God with secular reasoning and held that up as the ultimate in truth. It attacked the concepts of inspiration, faith, miracles, the divinity of Christ, etc.... and replaced them with cynicism and distrust of God and His word. If you want to see the direct descendents of the rationalists of the 1700s take a look at "The Jesus Seminar". They openly defy scripture and were behind the creation of a politically correct version of the Bible titled Twentieth Century New Testament in which they inserted support for a bunch of the socialist agenda. I researched members of the team that produced it and they were all socialist activists pretending to be Christians, which is how I see Barbie.

thanks ff - i can't always reply as fully as I wish, as a lot of the time i'm on my handheld at work - i did notice your previous post and meant to return to it

 

[Stripe]

A group of men against one God.

Puts to bed your stupid argument that YEC was invented 100 years ago.

You hate those guys for being YEC when they were mostly 500 years ago. :chuckle:

 

[Gary K]

Puts to bed your stupid argument that YEC was invented 100 years ago.

You hate those guys for being YEC when they were mostly 500 years ago. :chuckle:

Here's a quote that describes Barby. This paragraph is describing pastors and theologians who were rationalists pretending to be Christians. The quote is from Nathaniel Whiting who was a Baptist preacher is the mid 1800s. He was educated in the schools of the Dutch Reformed church and was a linguist, Bible translator, and educator by profession.

Some latitude might be allowed, on the ground that though he was not a believer of Luther's school, yet he was a rational Christian, as might naturally be expected of one, who lived in "the age of light." He might be a skeptic in heart and life, so long as he pretended to be a disciple of Christ. He must profess to believe the Bible, while he was allowed, by every art of fallacious criticism, to explain away all those doctrines, which hold a vital alliance with the redemption of man. However revolting such hypocrisy may seem to men of integrity; in Germany, multitudes were found, men of varied condition, possessing talents which gave currency to their opinions, who would stoop to such hypocrisy. By acting thus, they have given a memorable lesson to the world. They have proved, that in the cause of divine truth, genius and learning are worse than useless, if their possessor is destitute of an upright and humble heart-if he does not fear God and tremble at his word.

 

[The Barbarian]

Puts to bed your stupid argument that YEC was invented 100 years ago.

Well, let's take a look...
The Protestant consensus since the time of the Reformation has been that the physical universe and its history are real, not illusory. As God’s creation, the physical world conveys genuine information about the Creator and can serve to inform our interpretations of the Bible. Therefore, when geologists (many of them devout Christians) in the early 1800’s found that the rock layers showed the earth to be far older than the 6000 years derived from a literal reading of Genesis, Bible-believing Christians did not ignore, suppress, or lie about these findings. Rather, they adjusted their interpretation of the relevant Bible passages away from a simplistic literal reading, just as they had done 200 years earlier with the verses that depicted a stationary earth. Through about 1960, nearly all Christians, including conservative Old Testament scholars and most fundamentalists, were comfortable with interpretations of Genesis which accommodated an earth that was many millions of years old.

Today’s young earth creationism is based on “Flood geology”. Flood geology, which teaches that most sedimentary rock layers were deposited in a single global Flood about 2500 B.C., was developed in its modern form in the early twentieth century by Seventh-day Adventist George M. Price to conform to visions of a six-day creation reported by Adventist prophetess Ellen White. Despite being advised by geologists that it was incorrect, John Whitcomb and Henry Morris took over Price’s Flood geology and repackaged it in The Genesis Flood (1961), which rapidly became dogma among conservative Protestants. Like White, Whitcomb and Morris assumed their interpretation of the Bible was infallible, which justified ignoring and distorting any scientific findings which did not agree with their Flood geology.

Thus, modern young earth creationism did not develop from improved Bible exegesis or new geological findings. Rather, it derives from extra-biblical revelation or assumptions, and scientific claims known at the time to be false. This approach is at odds with the historic Christian understanding of God’s works and God’s Word.
https://letterstocreationists.wordp...xposing-the-roots-of-young-earth-creationism/

You hate those guys for being YEC when they were mostly 500 years ago.

And now you know different. You hate people who don't buy this modern revision of scripture, especially when they remind you from where it came.

 

[Gary K]

Isaiah 5:20 ¶Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Taking God at His word is just sooo evil.... It's the epitome of rebellion against God. Ooops. Forgot about Adam and Eve. They caused all this pain, misery, suffering, and death by NOT taking God at His word.

 

[Stripe]

Well, let's take a look.

Yep. We did. You insist that YEC was created 100 years ago and then you call creationists from 500 years ago "God haters."

Show us your math. :chuckle:

Today’s young earth creationism is based on “Flood geology.”

Nope. It's based on scripture:

"Six days."

"The whole Earth."

We know you can't abide the truth.

Your modern invention of Darwinism did not develop from improved Bible exegesis or new geological findings. Rather, it derives from your religious fanaticism.

And now you know different. You hate people who don't buy this modern revision of scripture, especially when they remind you from where it came.

Your anger flows through every post you make.

You should learn to be humble and accept how God said He did it. :up:

 

[chair]

...Therefore ... Bible-believing Christians did not ignore, suppress, or lie about these findings. Rather, they adjusted their interpretation of the relevant Bible passages away from a simplistic literal reading...[/COLOR]

I recall that Maimonides made a similar statement about how to interpret the Bible in light of known facts. I could find that if anyone is interested. I believe the Dalai Lama has said similar things as well.

 

[Stripe]

... known facts.

Nope. Evolution is just a theory.

How many times will the Darwinists have to be corrected on this?

 

[The Barbarian]

Taking God at His word is just sooo evil....

Maybe that's the problem for you. Try taking Him at his word, and see. Christians have different interpretations of Genesis, and all of them think they are taking Him at His word. Fortunately, it's not a salvation issue. Even if you're a YE creationist, you won't lose your salvation, as long as you don't insist that other Christians have to believe what you do about it.

It's the epitome of rebellion against God.

No. It's disagreement among Christians about some things that don't matter as far as salvation goes. Don't make an idol of creationism. Accept that Christians have different interpretations of the Creation story.

 

[chair]

Nope. Evolution is just a theory.

How many times will the Darwinists have to be corrected on this?

There is the FACT of evolution. Observed facts. And there is the theory of evolution which attempts to explain the observed facts.

I Know, I know...the earth is flat...

 

[The Barbarian]

There is the FACT of evolution. Observed facts. And there is the theory of evolution which attempts to explain the observed facts.

And we have today's winner. :first:

"It's just a theory" shows a profound ignorance of science. In science, "theory" is an idea that has been repeatedly confirmed by evidence. People with little understanding of science generally confuse "hypothesis" with "theory." A hypothesis is a testable, but untested explanation for a natural phenomenon. It becomes a theory only after being repeatedly tested and verified.

The confusion may have something to do with the use of the word in the legal profession which refers to hypotheses about the law as "theories."

 

[Stripe]

Maybe that's the problem for you. Try taking Him at his word, and see.

Good idea! :thumb:

The Bible says "six days" and "the whole world."

Game over, Darwinist. All you have left is vague threats over salvation and your uncontrollable rage.

Christians have different interpretations of Genesis.

Thanks for that, Captain Obvious.

It's not a salvation issue. As a Darwinist, you won't lose your salvation, even if you insist that other Christians have to believe what you do about it.

Don't make an idol of your Darwinism. Accept that the Bible says what it says.

There is the FACT of evolution.

Nope. Evolution is just a theory.

I Know, I know...the earth is flat...

Uh, suit yourself. :idunno:

"It's just a theory" shows a profound ignorance of science.

Nope. It's the foundation of scientific investigation. We hold our ideas up to the flame of experimentation and falsification. It is the religious fanatics who insist that their ideas are facts.

In science, "theory" is an idea that has been repeatedly confirmed by evidence.

No theory is ever confirmed. Ever. You just exposed yourself as a scientific retard.

People with little understanding of science insist theories — especially their precious Darwinism — are facts.

A hypothesis ... becomes a theory only after being ... verified.

Nope. Neither hypotheses nor theories are ever verified. Never.

You just exposed yourself as a scientific retard.

The confusion has everything to do with your religious devotion to your precious Darwinism.

 

[The Barbarian]

Nothing in the world offers comfort to a Christian. It isn't meant to. Like gravity, evolution just is. A Christian should not fear the world; he has no need to do so.

 

[Stripe]

Like gravity, evolution just is.

Nope. Evolution is just a theory.

How many times do you need to be taught this?

Gravity is a fact. Darwinists love putting their religion alongside undeniable, everyday observations and insisting that they are the same thing. Equivocation and obfuscation is their only play given how badly rational analysis of the evidence is going for them.

A Darwinist should fear the world; it denies everything that he has sold his soul to.

 

[Gary K]

Nope. Evolution is just a theory.

How many times do you need to be taught this?

Gravity is a fact. Darwinists love putting their religion alongside undeniable, everyday observations and insisting that they are the same thing. Equivocation and obfuscation is their only play given how badly rational analysis of the evidence is going for them.

A Darwinist should fear the world; it denies everything that he has sold his soul to.

Gravity is an observable fact. Anyone can look around them and see it in action. Not so with evolution. When I look around me I see God's handiwork, His creation, or what's left of it after 6000 years of sin and the degradation sin causes.