Is it time for a new James Bond?

[genuineoriginal]

Official odds from an online gambling site (link will not be provided):

Idris Elba	4/7
Tom Hardy	3/1
James Norton	6/1
Jack Huston	9/1
Aidan Turner	10/1
Sam Claflin	12/1
Ricky Whittle	14/1
Cillian Murphy	16/1
Michael Fassbender	16/1
Tom Hiddlestone	16/1
Travis Fimmel	16/1
David Caves	20/1
Henry Cavill	20/1
Jack Lowden	20/1
Jamie Bell	20/1
Andrew Lincoln	25/1
Dev Patel	25/1
Damian Lewis	28/1
Jack O' Connell	28/1
Luke Evans	28/1
Dan Stevens	33/1
Daniel Kaluuya	33/1
Daniel Robinson	33/1
David Oyelowo	33/1
Ed Skrein	33/1
Richard Armitage	33/1
Rupert Friend	33/1
Sam Heughan	33/1
Sam Worthington	33/1
Sullivan Stapleton	33/1
Taron Egerton	33/1
Theo James	33/1
Ben Barnes	40/1
Dougray Scott	40/1
Jamie Dornan	40/1
Jim Caviezel	40/1
Jon Hamm	40/1
Matthew Goode	40/1
Benedict Cumberbatch	50/1
Chiwetel Ejiofor	50/1
Gerard Butler	50/1
Hugh Jackman	50/1
John Boyega	50/1
Jude Law	50/1
Kit Harington	50/1
Nicholas Hoult	50/1
Orlando Bloom	50/1
Robert Pattinson	50/1
Ryan Gosling	50/1
Toby Stephens	50/1
Will Poulter	50/1
Chris Hemsworth	66/1
Christian Bale	66/1
Josh Whitehouse	66/1
O.T.Fagbenle	66/1
Rufus Sewell	66/1
James McAvoy	80/1
Clive Owen	100/1
Colin Firth	200/1
Daniel Radcliffe	200/1
Ewan McGregor	200/1
Jason Statham	200/1
Russell Crowe	200/1
Scarlett Johansson	200/1

 

[genuineoriginal]

How did Daniel Radcliffe make the list?

Daniel Radcliffe: I'm more Bond villain than James Bond dpa: If, one day, the production company asks you to do the next James Bond, what would you say? Radcliffe: I'm sure no one will ever be asking me to do that! I've never been a massive Bond fan. I love what Daniel Craig has done with it, but I don't think I'm very castable as Bond. A Bond baddy, a bad guy in Bond, that'd be fun, but I don't think I'm necessarily the hero in those movies.

 

[CabinetMaker]

How about a Jane Bond?

 

[Tambora]

This "political correctness" where it comes to film and television is getting beyond a joke.

Yeppers.

 

[Town Heretic]

Elba's a great actor but I hope not. James Bond is a white, straight male and it was bad enough in Skyfall when there was a subtle intimation that Bond might have had homosexual dalliances in his past. Nope. This "political correctness" where it comes to film and television is getting beyond a joke.

Bond was a white male because nearly anyone approaching that mythology would have to have been in the period. A period the films are no longer set in. So race as a distinguisher should be out of the window, especially if it would bet Idris in the role. He's a brilliant actor who could do a couple of three films and bring something new to the role, expand the popularity of it and hold every meaningful tradition in check.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No.

Sean Connery was the one and ONLY Bond, James Bond.

 

[Town Heretic]

Potential American choices for Bond:

Buddy Ebsen: white, straight, older. :think: Being dead might be a draw back...Depends on where they want the series to go, I suppose.

Buddy Hackett: supra.

Now if he has to sound British it gets stickier as few American actors could pull off the accent.

Dick Van Dyke...well, no.

Mel Gibson?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

They ruined the movie version of 'The wild wild West' by having Will Smith play the part. Mel Gibson would have been a better choice at the time.

 

[ok doser]

Why not a black James Bond?

why not indeed?

How did Daniel Radcliffe make the list?

bizarre :dizzy:

How about a Jane Bond?

a scarlett johansson Jane Bond would be interesting, but what would make it "bond"? How would it be different from Lara Croft? What distinguishes "bond" from every other action film out there today?

They should keep Bond as Ian Fleming created him. I am not a fan of rewriting characters.

Fleming wrote the character in the heart of the cold war, as an ex-WW2 commando

fleming's creation, novel as it was at the time, is seriously dated

 

[Arthur Brain]

Bond was a white male because nearly anyone approaching that mythology would have to have been in the period. A period the films are no longer set in. So race as a distinguisher should be out of the window, especially if it would bet Idris in the role. He's a brilliant actor who could do a couple of three films and bring something new to the role, expand the popularity of it and hold every meaningful tradition in check.

I'm against it because it smacks of the prevailing political correctness that's infecting so much in entertainment nowadays. As before, it was bad enough in Skyfall where it was implied that Bond could have had homosexual trysts in the past. Well, no. He's a straight bloke, pure and simple. He's not some goody two shoes and if they change the character into a woman (as there's been talk about) as they've done with Doctor Who over here then that'll be the end of the franchise.

 

[genuineoriginal]

There has already been a female James Bond in a movie that is not one of the Broccoli movies.

Casino Royale 1967

David Niven: Sir James Bond

Peter Sellers: Evelyn Tremble / James Bond
Ursula Andress: Vesper Lynd / James Bond
Joanna Pettet: Mata Bond / James Bond
Daliah Lavi: The Detainer / James Bond
Barbara Bouchet: Miss Moneypenny / James Bond 007
Terence Cooper: Coop / James Bond

Woody Allen: Jimmy Bond

 

[Town Heretic]

I'm against it because it smacks of the prevailing political correctness

I see it as more of a reflection of the prevailing indifference on race as a controlling factor in the consideration. When I first heard the speculation about Idris my, "Yes!" was all about the idea of him in the role. I didn't actually think about race until after I'd processed that part. And then it was more along the, "But you know the same doofi who lost their minds with Star Wars casting a black guy in the future who didn't step out of a Colt 45 commercial will have a aneurysm."

it was bad enough in Skyfall where it was implied that Bond could have had homosexual trysts in the past.

That one didn't bother me either. I think I laughed at the wink that gave the whole hypersexualization of Bond's heterosexuality through so much of the series.

Well, no. He's a straight bloke, pure and simple.

Agreed. That's what made it funny. Would have been funnier with a line like, "If I had the inclination I'd hardly have the time," or something like it, but you know, funny in any event. I didn't see it as a capitulation to any prevailing wind so much as a license available because of the times.

I'm not indifferent to ham fisted efforts to alter a traditional role, as with some of the comic book characters I grew up enjoying, but I understand that sometimes those efforts are more about the liberality of what can be done with characters going a bit stale than with actual liberality.

He's not some goody two shoes

Rogers. James Rogers...or Bond, Fred Bond. Works either way. Sort of like Bond to hear the Skyfall folk talk. :shocked:

and if they change the character into a woman

You mean cast a woman or literally change him? :smack:

(as there's been talk about) as they've done with Doctor Who over here then that'll be the end of the franchise.

I just don't see how casting a female Bond would kill Doctor Who, but you Brits...

 

[Arthur Brain]

I see it as more of a reflection of the prevailing indifference on race as a controlling factor in the consideration. When I first heard the speculation about Idris my, "Yes!" was all about the idea of him in the role. I didn't actually think about race until after I'd processed that part. And then it was more along the, "But you know the same doofi who lost their minds with Star Wars casting a black guy in the future who didn't step out of a Colt 45 commercial will have a aneurysm."

Again, it's the prevailing political correctness aspect that's irking me with all of this. Heck, you know I'm all for equal rights and not some dyed in the wool traditionalist but I am fed up with the PC crap. I don't mind the more serious portrayals of Bond aka Dalton/Craig but in essence he's almost an antihero in some regards as it is and it's yet another move to shove political correctness into entertainment.

That one didn't bother me either. I think I laughed at the wink that gave the whole hypersexualization of Bond's heterosexuality through so much of the series.

Again, it only bothered me because of the PC angle. Suddenly an obviously heterosexual character could be bisexual...Why bother?

Agreed. That's what made it funny. Would have been funnier with a line like, "If I had the inclination I'd hardly have the time," or something like it, but you know, funny in any event. I didn't see it as a capitulation to any prevailing wind so much as a license available because of the times.

I'm not indifferent to ham fisted efforts to alter a traditional role, as with some of the comic book characters I grew up enjoying, but I understand that sometimes those efforts are more about the liberality of what can be done with characters going a bit stale than with actual liberality.

Well, who knows but if you end up changing the founded characteristics of an established character then you might as well build up a brand new franchise.

Rogers. James Rogers...or Bond, Fred Bond. Works either way. Sort of like Bond to hear the Skyfall folk talk. :shocked:


You mean cast a woman or literally change him? :smack:

Would you be okay with a woman cast as James Bond? Seriously, would you?

I just don't see how casting a female Bond would kill Doctor Who, but you Brits...

:chuckle:

It remains to be seen if Dr Who will survive the latest PC nonsense as it is. I remind you again, that's what I'm opposed to.

 

[Town Heretic]

Again, it's the prevailing political correctness aspect that's irking me with all of this.

I don't see it, but I understand what you're saying. To me, the right has hammered this sort of thing home so often that a lot of people are seeing things that aren't inherently there. I don't believe Idris is a compelling choice because he's black, but because he's an enormously talented actor. And I can believe someone coming up with him as a choice without it being at all sponsored by a subtextual progressive agenda.

Heck, you know I'm all for equal rights

I do, which is why I'd say who cares if it's someone's literal idea to advance a progressive notion so long as the choice is great in the ways that matter?

and not some dyed in the wool traditionalist but I am fed up with the PC crap.

Which to some extent can be a lot like beauty though, right?

I don't mind the more serious portrayals of Bond aka Dalton/Craig

Well, it's not as though I'm advocating Eddie Murphy take over the role. lain: ...though I might.

Again, it only bothered me because of the PC angle. Suddenly an obviously heterosexual character could be bisexual...Why bother?

I thought James was screwing around with him...not literally, of course. Now I'm hoping we see Bond choosing a window treatment in the next one just so I can think about you hurling a popcorn at the screen. :chuckle:

Well, who knows but if you end up changing the founded characteristics of an established character then you might as well build up a brand new franchise.

I was really disappointed that Angelina J dropped out of continuing the SALT movie franchise. I thought that one had a great start.

Would you be okay with a woman cast as James Bond? Seriously, would you?

I'm not sure if I can do serious today, but give me a minute...(timed)...sure, though I'd change the name to Jane. Actually, at that point I think it's another thing. There are elements of Bond that rest on his gender. And I'm not just talking about the Bond girls either.

:chuckle:

Yeah. I thought that one wasn't half bad.

It remains to be seen if Dr Who will survive the latest PC nonsense as it is.

I liked the idea, though I don't think of things in terms of a PC attempt. I think the move is more about trying something to freshen it a bit and the Doctors have been so individualistic that gender feels like about the least important aspect of the role. Maybe that's just me. :idunno:

 

[Arthur Brain]

I don't see it, but I understand what you're saying. To me, the right has hammered this sort of thing home so often that a lot of people are seeing things that aren't inherently there. I don't believe Idris is a compelling choice because he's black, but because he's an enormously talented actor. And I can believe someone coming up with him as a choice without it being at all sponsored by a subtextual progressive agenda.

Except it's not just Bond or Dr Who but other areas of film and TV, making Sulu's character gay in the new Star Treks for example. George Takei even objected to that.

I do, which is why I'd say who cares if it's someone's literal idea to advance a progressive notion so long as the choice is great in the ways that matter?

Well, maybe I'm just fed up of the PC aspect pervading entertainment these days so I won't claim to be thoroughly objective on the matter. If you're going to alter a tradition/character to the utmost extent then you end up with a separate entity.

Which to some extent can be a lot like beauty though, right?

Hmm, not really. You can argue that beauty is subjective up to a point but then there's few that would argue that Marilyn Monroe was an ugly woman. Sometimes the PC aspect is just obvious.

Well, it's not as though I'm advocating Eddie Murphy take over the role. lain: ...though I might.

I'd watch out of sheer, morbid curiosity...

I thought James was screwing around with him...not literally, of course. Now I'm hoping we see Bond choosing a window treatment in the next one just so I can think about you hurling a popcorn at the screen. :chuckle:

Well, possibly and if so and there's no further implications then fair enough. I don't eat popcorn...

lain:

I was really disappointed that Angelina J dropped out of continuing the SALT movie franchise. I thought that one had a great start.

Entertaining for sure.

I'm not sure if I can do serious today, but give me a minute...(timed)...sure, though I'd change the name to Jane. Actually, at that point I think it's another thing. There are elements of Bond that rest on his gender. And I'm not just talking about the Bond girls either.

Well quite...

Yeah. I thought that one wasn't half bad.

You were right, it was all bad...:roses:

I liked the idea, though I don't think of things in terms of a PC attempt. I think the move is more about trying something to freshen it a bit and the Doctors have been so individualistic that gender feels like about the least important aspect of the role. Maybe that's just me. :idunno:

As you can tell, I didn't and there was already talk about how the doctor should be a woman before Capaldi took the role so there was definitely a PC aspect to it. Okay, so all the different incarnations of the doctor have differing personalties and are individuals in their own right but they are still also one and the same, and all male. Now up until Tenant's incarnation, it could be argued that Dr Who was effectively asexual. He never had any romantic dalliances with any of his companions or anyone else up until Rose Tyler, so that set a change. Okay, it was doomed as it was always going to be but if the producers thought it was suitable to introduce a romantic aspect to Dr Who then he was a male in love with a woman, not a lesbian.

 

[Town Heretic]

Except it's not just Bond or Dr Who but other areas of film and TV, making Sulu's character gay in the new Star Treks for example. George Takei even objected to that.

I'm not saying it isn't done, I'm just saying that the right wing's pattern recognition overload is spilling over to the point where anyone not following a traditional formula is open to the charge.

Well, maybe I'm just fed up of the PC aspect pervading entertainment these days so I won't claim to be thoroughly objective on the matter. If you're going to alter a tradition/character to the utmost extent then you end up with a separate entity.

I think that's the line, but I like to reconsider what's important in that line. Is Jack Reacher not Jack Reacher because the actor playing him isn't 6' 5"? Is James Bond not James Bond if he's black?

Hmm, not really.

It's prima facie like beauty given you see it where I don't with Idris.

That's part of the problem and the right wingers have poured PC over every shift away from traditional (which normally means straight, white, male) roles and responses that everything that isn't that must be PC, the way any step away from their positions on everything else makes a thing or person liberal.

You can argue that beauty is subjective up to a point but then there's few that would argue that Marilyn Monroe was an ugly woman.

She's not for everyone. And some women thought Bogart was it. People.

Sometimes the PC aspect is just obvious.

Sometimes, like when it's a declared objective, but a lot of the time it, to revisit an old song, ain't necessarily so...as with Idris and Bond. And, again, even when it is intended it isn't necessarily a bad thing. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to break into the traditional (supra) club of reserved heroic roles and mythologies.

That's my position at any rate.

Well, possibly and if so and there's no further implications then fair enough. I don't eat popcorn...

I forgot that you're a Brit. Well, whatever soft food equivalent you people use in theaters then.

You were right, it was all bad...:roses:

Like the Michael Jackson song? :think: So...that didn't really go where I wanted it to.

As you can tell, I didn't and there was already talk about how the doctor should be a woman before Capaldi took the role so there was definitely a PC aspect to it.

Doesn't bother me if she's good and it's interesting as far as fresh angles go.

Okay, so all the different incarnations of the doctor have differing personalties and are individuals in their own right but they are still also one and the same, and all male.

And so rarely has that actually factored in how the Doctor goes about his business that (until Rose) it's mostly not that material. How many doctors had romantic tension as a vital part of their adventures?

Now up until Tenant's incarnation, it could be argued that Dr Who was effectively asexual.

Yep.

He never had any romantic dalliances with any of his companions or anyone else up until Rose Tyler, so that set a change. Okay, it was doomed as it was always going to be but if the producers thought it was suitable to introduce a romantic aspect to Dr Who then he was a male in love with a woman, not a lesbian.

I think a lesbian angle would be a mistake, because it would be playing to a sliver of a minority instead of the greatest common denominator of fandom. Take me for example, I'm not remotely homophobic, but I wouldn't be interested in a same sex exploration of romance as a central theme, which it would have to be if the Doctor was gay. That said, the gender shift alone isn't a problem for me and the announcement was met by this fan with a smile. I hope they don't make it particularly focused on romantic angles. Rose really played that card, though if they find the right spark for an unresolved tension with a companion it could be interesting, seeing the Doctor's take on male/female relationships from the other side of things.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I'm not saying it isn't done, I'm just saying that the right wing's pattern recognition overload is spilling over to the point where anyone not following a traditional formula is open to the charge.

Okay, sure, there's that to consider as well but as a non right winger I've seen an increased tendency in more mainstream or popular entertainment at least to go overboard with some of the PC business. I'm generally more interested in the more cutting edge side of film and TV where it's not so much of an issue but I still like blockbusters and I don't need characters in films being rewritten to be gay in order to make an obvious PC point.

I think that's the line, but I like to reconsider what's important in that line. Is Jack Reacher not Jack Reacher because the actor playing him isn't 6' 5"? Is James Bond not James Bond if he's black?

Fair point.

It's prima facie like beauty given you see it where I don't with Idris.

That's part of the problem and the right wingers have poured PC over every shift away from traditional (which normally means straight, white, male) roles and responses that everything that isn't that must be PC, the way any step away from their positions on everything else makes a thing or person liberal.

Well, I'm not one to cry PC at any given thing but I've noticed the trend and I've little time for garbage such as traditionalism equating to white straight males even though I am one. I've heard the "white liberal guilt" mantra from the "right" often enough and it's a joke.

She's not for everyone. And some women thought Bogart was it. People.

She was a beauty and glamour icon and nobody is for "everyone". There's a reason why certain people are generally regarded as beautiful, pretty, handsome etc and there's science behind it too. Facial symmetry, bone structure etc. As to Bogart then it was more probably down to his presence and character than physical appearance else who do you suppose would win in a "better looking contest" between Brad Pitt and Jack Black?

Sometimes, like when it's a declared objective, but a lot of the time it, to revisit an old song, ain't necessarily so...as with Idris and Bond. And, again, even when it is intended it isn't necessarily a bad thing. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to break into the traditional (supra) club of reserved heroic roles and mythologies.

Perhaps, but if you tinker with certain things to alter them when they've become virtually unrecognisable then you've created something else entirely. It may even be time to ditch the Bond Franchise possibly.

I forgot that you're a Brit. Well, whatever soft food equivalent you people use in theaters then.

Crunchie bars and flapjacks...

lain:

Like the Michael Jackson song? :think: So...that didn't really go where I wanted it to.

Brazil?

Doesn't bother me if she's good and it's interesting as far as fresh angles go.

I like her as an actress, I don't like the angle as effectively the doctor is a male despite regenerations and after Tenant/Piper it just doesn't work.

And so rarely has that actually factored in how the Doctor goes about his business that (until Rose) it's mostly not that material. How many doctors had romantic tension as a vital part of their adventures?

None until Tenant, certainly that I can recall anyway.

I think a lesbian angle would be a mistake, because it would be playing to a sliver of a minority instead of the greatest common denominator of fandom. Take me for example, I'm not remotely homophobic, but I wouldn't be interested in a same sex exploration of romance as a central theme, which it would have to be if the Doctor was gay. That said, the gender shift alone isn't a problem for me and the announcement was met by this fan with a smile. I hope they don't make it particularly focused on romantic angles. Rose really played that card, though if they find the right spark for an unresolved tension with a companion it could be interesting, seeing the Doctor's take on male/female relationships from the other side of things.

It might well have been better to leave romance/sexuality completely out of the equation with Dr Who in hindsight as it was never concerned with that as a series. Initially the master was going to be revealed as the doctor's brother in Pertwee's era until the actor playing him at the time unfortunately died in a car crash so that would have scotched any ideas of the doctor being gender fluid. I say that as someone who enjoyed the chemistry between Tenant and Piper but then the sexuality aspects became more prominent with the bisexual Captain Jack and then with Capaldi's lesbian assistant. Hey, maybe it'll be interesting and with some of the more memorable Dr Who Story lines it might even challenge aspects that still need it, but it still smacks of PC. McCoy wasn't exactly given the best in the way of stories overall but "Remembrance of The Daleks" was one of the best and deepest in Dr Who overall IMO, the underlying racist undertones all too apparent.

Still, if Tenant and Rose had got together then what would have happened once "he" changed into Whitaker?



:think:

 

[Town Heretic]

I'm generally more interested in the more cutting edge side of film and TV where it's not so much of an issue but I still like blockbusters

Ha! You almost had me, but I know Blockbusters went out of business years ago. lain:

Well, I'm not one to cry PC at any given thing

I wouldn't think that you would. Now show me your "but"...and I mean that in a straight, white way...which I think has some connection to Broadway. Maybe. :think:

and I've little time for garbage such as traditionalism equating to white straight males even though I am one.

I'd say that it's empirically observable in just about every major media form for the lion's share of their existence.

In film and tv almost every lead/central figure/protagonist has been white and male.

[Monroe] was a beauty and glamour icon and nobody is for "everyone".

Agreed across the broad...board. Across the board.

There's a reason why certain people are generally regarded as beautiful, pretty, handsome etc and there's science behind it too. Facial symmetry, bone structure etc.

Agreed in every equal part. Came through for me on many a Saturday night. We're a symmetrical clan. Not in the hooded way, of course.

As to Bogart then it was more probably more down to his presence and character than physical appearance else who do you suppose would win in a "better looking contest" between Brad Pitt and Jack Black?

Well that's baiting the field a bit. Who would win between Brad Pitt and a younger Harrison Ford? Or Brad Pitt and a bowl of Raisin Bran, which is extraordinarily symmetrical in a spoon. Much like Pitt and Jolie back in their day.

Perhaps, but if you tinker with certain things to alter them when they've become virtually unrecognisable then you've created something else entirely. It may even be time to ditch the Bond Franchise possibly.

I don't know why. It's hugely popular. Is the choice ditch it or keep it the bastion of white male mystique? I don't believe so. Idris, I'm talking to you.

And Bond always looked good in black anyway.

Crunchie bars and flapjacks...

Too early for flapjacks? (20 pts)

Brazil?

Not personally, but I knew a girl who tried it.

I like her as an actress, I don't like the angle as effectively the doctor is a male despite regenerations and after Tenant/Piper it just doesn't work.

The Doctor was male, just like he was an old guy who didn't so much as wink at the ladies once upon an incarnation. I think it will excite more people than it alienates.

And Capaldi didn't exactly break the bank, interest wise. Not entirely his fault. I liked him, but the writing wasn't up to snuff too often and worrying about whether or not he'd break a hip or start hiking his pants under his nipples was distracting in a completely white, heterosexual male way, of course.

None until Tenant, certainly that I can recall anyway.

I think there was a hint of it prior but nothing like what transpired after Doctor Libido rode the testosterone train to ta-ta town.

It might well have been better to leave romance/sexuality completely out of the equation...I say that as someone who enjoyed the chemistry between Tenant and Piper but then the sexuality aspects became more prominent with the bisexual Captain Jack and then with Capaldi's lesbian assistant. Hey, maybe it'll be interesting and with some of the more memorable Dr Who Story lines it'll challenge aspects that need it.

Could be. I thought going black, female and lesbian was a little reachy, but it didn't bother me all that much and they didn't lay on the horn, so to speak. Captain Jack was a peculiar character, but I enjoyed the series and the sexuality of it was mostly played for laughs no matter which way he was inclined to look. A bit campy overall.

McCoy wasn't exactly given the best in the way of stories overall but "Remembrance of The Daleks" was one of the best and deepest in Dr Who overall IMO, the underlying racist undertones all too apparent.

:thumb:

Still, if Tenant and Rose had got together then what would have happened once "he" changed into Whitaker?

Something a lot of straight males would probably have set their dvrs to capture. lain:

 

[George Affleck]

I would only pay to watch a movie if the new fella was a King James Bond.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Ha! You almost had me, but I know Blockbusters went out of business years ago. lain:

Well sir, your pithy brand of wit has betrayed you on this occasion because I was of course referring to the popular game show of the same name!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbusters_(UK_game_show)

What's more, in an ironic twist of events amid some incredibly interesting trivia, the long running host Bob Holness was also the radio voice of James Bond (and happened to be a white straight male).



:banana:

I wouldn't think that you would. Now show me your "but"...and I mean that in a straight, white way...which I think has some connection to Broadway. Maybe. :think:

I addressed this posterior, sorry,prior...

I'd say that it's empirically observable in just about every major media form for the lion's share of their existence.

In film and tv almost every lead/central figure/protagonist has been white and male.

In formative years yes, but not so much as of the last twenty to thirty years plus I'd argue. Sigourney Weaver made Ripley a female icon in cinema. Denzel Washington and Samuel L Jackson have had many a leading role over the years. The iconic "Night Of The Living Dead" broke the mould with having a black man as the main lead and even Buffy The Vampire Slayer had a female as the "kick ***" lead. There's plenty others that could be mentioned.

Agreed across the broad...board. Across the board.

Stick to Soduko...Sudoku!

Agreed in every equal part. Came through for me on many a Saturday night. We're a symmetrical clan. Not in the hooded way, of course.

Okkk.

Well that's baiting the field a bit. Who would win between Brad Pitt and a younger Harrison Ford? Or Brad Pitt and a bowl of Raisin Bran, which is extraordinarily symmetrical in a spoon. Much like Pitt and Jolie back in their day.

Well, would Karl Malden have had a chance at any point? Otherwise, the glamour and glitz of beautiful people is there for a reason. Few would argue that on a physical level they're ugly.

I don't know why. It's hugely popular. Is the choice ditch it or keep it the bastion of white male mystique? I don't believe so. Idris, I'm talking to you.

And Bond always looked good in black anyway.

Okay, as long as they don't make him gay...

Too early for flapjacks? (20 pts)

Is that points or pints?

Not personally, but I knew a girl who tried it.

My condolencies.

The Doctor was male, just like he was an old guy who didn't so much as wink at the ladies once upon an incarnation. I think it will excite more people than it alienates.

In which case the essence of Dr Who has kinda gone on one level.

And Capaldi didn't exactly break the bank, interest wise. Not entirely his fault. I liked him, but the writing wasn't up to snuff too often and worrying about whether or not he'd break a hip or start hiking his pants under his nipples was distracting in a completely white, heterosexual male way, of course.

There were some good stories with Capaldi but too many duff and filler ones, much like Mccoy so little argument there.

I think there was a hint of it prior but nothing like what transpired after Doctor Libido rode the testosterone train to ta-ta town.

Who with?

Could be. I thought going black, female and lesbian was a little reachy, but it didn't bother me all that much and they didn't lay on the horn, so to speak. Captain Jack was a peculiar character, but I enjoyed the series and the sexuality of it was mostly played for laughs no matter which way he was inclined to look. A bit campy overall.

Well, Torchwood took care of the more adult aspects which was fair enough.

:thumb:

Just a shame there weren't more stories for McCoy of that calibre...

Something a lot of straight males would probably have set their dvrs to capture. lain:

Well, quite...

And that's that!