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  • #46
    Originally posted by 6days View Post
    I think my answer will be the same as many Christians. We follow Him because we are saved. We don't follow Him trying to earn salvation.
    Jesus paid the price for me and you at Calvary. I can't add on brownie points to what Jesus did, through my behavior. He paid my debt in full.

    Again...I follow Him because I love Him...I'm indebted to Him...He knows what is best for me and wants my obedience.
    Ok, since Lon cannot answer my simple question, I will ask you the same.

    So you don't admit following Jesus is not the way to salvation?

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by meshak View Post
      I don't want to beat around bush.

      So you don't admit following Jesus is not the way to salvation?
      I am TRYING to get you to think. To search scriptures where we BOTH are students again. If you can't do that, is there a point?

      Originally posted by Lon View Post
      Hold on. Let's tackle trinity a bit later. We have a lot to discuss yet about disciple, new creation and saved.
      I pray you notice, I'm not giving you 'my' answers but I believe I am asking VERY important questions about the scripture you and I are looking at. If you can't do that anymore, you are well beyond Jesus being able to teach you anything any more. We both desperately need to know what Jesus is saying. I asked an important question: Does being a disciple mean we are saved? Would it mean we are Christians? I think it will help you understand that someone isn't necessarily disagreeing that in order to be Jesus' disciple, we'd have to follow Him and His example. Rather, they are trying to say something else that you miss. They are saying something about who they are. I haven't sold everything I own to follow Christ yet. Does that make me a poor disciple? More...does it make me not saved? Do I have to sell all I have to be saved? Are we talking about two different things? I'm asking you to show me the scriptures, Meshak.
      My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
      Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
      Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
      Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
      No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
      Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

      ? Yep

      Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

      ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

      Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Lon View Post
        1) Yep, we deny all and take up our cross and follow Him OR we cannot be His disciples. How is everyone doing with that? Kudos if you are, (seriously)

        2)Do you think there is a difference between a new creation and a disciple? Can one who is not a new creation follow Christ? Is everyone who is a disciple, a new creation?

        3) Was the Lord Jesus Christ talking about a state of perfection? Was it a general attitude where if I flub up some days, that's okay? IOW, was it a teachable moment and pointing to something only He could do, or was it something that was actually possible?

        4) I am not wealthy, but by the world's standards, I'm very wealthy, even poor in America. Jesus said Matthew 19:16-24
        Is discipleship the same as heaven? If we really followed Jesus, would we have no home? Live in poverty? I think that is exactly what discipleship means: to follow in His exact footsteps. If not, what wouldn't we actually follow today? How would we know?
        Meshak, can you share any scriptures with me that answer any of these questions? Some of them even?

        Please and thank you.
        My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
        Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
        Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
        Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
        No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
        Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

        ? Yep

        Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

        ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

        Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
          Jesus says to do this and do that, and do not do this, and do not do that.

          Lon and other Calvinsits say, "No Jesus, I cannot and will not---but you, save me first."

          Jesus does NOT save unbelievers.

          There is NO scripture anywhere that says Jesus saves unbelievers.
          You don't obey

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Nihilo View Post
            He said don't listen to fools like Marhig and GT, and I obey Him completely.
            You don't obey

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by meshak View Post

              So you don't admit following Jesus is not the way to salvation?
              No, I don't

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Lon View Post
                I am TRYING to get you to think.
                I want you to be honest about your faith because your so called "orthodoxy" faith is perverted.

                I am proving that your condition of salvation is wrong, and it is a grave sin to label Christians as non-believer, cult and unsaved, just because they don't believe in the trinity.

                Jesus says so many things how to be true follower and you dismiss them.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Lon View Post
                  Meshak, can you share any scriptures with me that answer any of these questions? Some of them even?

                  Please and thank you.
                  Please read the post I just gave you.

                  thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    @Lon

                    Thanks for reminding me of your long suffering, in wanting to convey biblical truths,
                    and why the ignore button keeps me quiet.
                    Psalm 42:1-2 (KJV)

                    1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

                    2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
                    .

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
                      You don't obey
                      You don't obey, mocker.
                      Oh how I love the Word of God!

                      Do not just read the word do it.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Eagles Wings View Post
                        @Lon.

                        Thanks for reminding me of your long suffering, in wanting to convey biblical truths,
                        and why the ignore button saves my sanity.
                        His long suffering? You mean his hiding?
                        Oh how I love the Word of God!

                        Do not just read the word do it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Eagles Wings View Post
                          @Lon.

                          Thanks for reminding me of your long suffering, in wanting to convey biblical truths,
                          and why the ignore button saves my sanity.
                          Dismissing Jesus' teachings is not true Christianity. You are only fooling yourselves.

                          You are no different than MADs; they disregard Jesus' teachings too..

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            No trinity believers ever able to answer my simple question about condition how to be saved.

                            They do their best to change the subject as you can see in this thread.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by meshak View Post
                              I want you to be honest about your faith because your so called "orthodoxy" faith is perverted.
                              Let's just both approach the scriptures as if we are both seeing them for the first time. We then need to look up the verses to see what the answer is. Can that be the rule for our discussion please? It will be hard for me too, but let's try.
                              Originally posted by meshak View Post
                              I am proving that your condition of salvation is wrong,
                              Forget that for now. Let us both just ask questions and answer them with scriptures, okay?
                              Originally posted by meshak View Post
                              and it is a grave sin to label Christians as non-believer, cult and unsaved, just because they don't believe in the trinity.
                              Look up the definitions of each with me. Let's see together (I've only said 'cult' to you that I remember):
                              Originally posted by Dictionary
                              Christian:1. A believer in the religion of Christ.
                              2. A professor of his belief in the religion of Christ.
                              3. A real disciple of Christ; one who believes in the truth of the Christian religion, and studies to follow the example, and obey the precepts, of Christ; a believer in Christ who is characterized by real piety.
                              4. In a general sense, the word Christians includes all who are born in a Christian country or of Christian parents.
                              According to these, would you be a Christian?
                              Originally posted by Dictionary
                              Nonbeliever:UNBELIE'VER
                              , n.
                              1. An incredulous person; one who does not believe.
                              2. An infidel; one who discredits revelation, or the mission, character and doctrines of Christ. 2 Cor 6.
                              On this one, perhaps we both could say the other is an unbeliever based on what we understand. So according to 1) we are both believers. According to 2) perhaps not, but I haven't called you one.
                              Originally posted by Dictionary
                              Cult: n.
                              A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
                              n.
                              The followers of such a religion or sect.

                              n.
                              A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
                              A community of one religious following, then, would be considered a cult but you agre correct, it also carries some of these other meanings if that is what is intended. For me, when I use it, I am speaking about "A group that splits off and goes against the larger main group, and no longer believes as they believe" That definition fits JW's I believe. Do you agree? I mean in this way, is it true you are a part of a cult?
                              Originally posted by Dictionary
                              Unsaved: Not saved; not having eternal life.
                              I have heard others say this to you, but I have not said this to you. I would want to talk a LOT more with you before doing so.
                              Originally posted by meshak View Post
                              Jesus says so many things how to be true follower and you dismiss them.
                              No I don't. Let's talk about some things He said, THEN you can tell me if I dismiss them or not, okay?
                              My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                              Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                              Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                              Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                              No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                              Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                              ? Yep

                              Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                              ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                              Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                double

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