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  • #16
    Originally posted by Knight
    Well... if the answer is "yes" why are you "booo-ing"?
    I don't know. It just seemed to be the thing to do at the time.
    God . . .even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV


    A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. . . . John Calvin

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    • #17
      Originally posted by docrob57
      I don't know. It just seemed to be the thing to do at the time.
      Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
      TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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      • #18
        In order to sin freewill is necessary, because the only way it is logically possible to sin is if you are free from God's control.
        But in order to obey an Omnicausal God freewill is not necessary. How can you logically disobey an Omnicausal God?
        God so sovereignly controls all events, both mental and physical, that we have no choice but to obey Him.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Knight View Post
          Wow, the sequel to the Hollywood blockbuster iROBOT looks awesome!

          It looks much better than the first movie.

          CLICK HERE for a preview.
          Excellent !!!



          THANK YOU JESUS CHRIST.

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          • #20
            From the mock poster: (emboldened emphasis mine)

            "In a world where freedom was outlawed.

            ...the dark forces Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Impassibility and Immutability closed in.

            Are you still free?
            "

            Have the open theists who promote views such as those quoted above even considered the consequences of their words? If God really turns out to be all of these things, how will he react to the characterization of his attributes as "dark"?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eli_Cash View Post
              From the mock poster: (emboldened emphasis mine)

              "In a world where freedom was outlawed.

              ...the dark forces Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Impassibility and Immutability closed in.

              Are you still free?
              "

              Have the open theists who promote views such as those quoted above even considered the consequences of their words? If God really turns out to be all of these things, how will he react to the characterization of his attributes as "dark"?
              I don't think he will mind!


              Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
              Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
              Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
              When men lack a sense of awe, there will be disaster. ~ Tao Te Ching, Seventy-Two

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              • #22
                Originally posted by asilentskeptic View Post
                I don't think he will mind!


                Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
                Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
                Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
                I think He will when one uses his essential attributes to accuse him. Especially when the one doing so claims to be a Christian.

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                • #23
                  Is there a Riff Trax on that one yet?
                  For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
                  Galatians 5:13-15

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Eli_Cash View Post
                    I think He will when one uses his essential attributes to accuse him. Especially when the one doing so claims to be a Christian.
                    That depends on whether HE gets so wrapped up in the Dogma which man surrounds HIM with that HE forgets to look at the Heart.......

                    I don't think we have to worry about that.
                    Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
                    ~Leonard Cohen

                    sigpic

                    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
                    ~Dalai Lama XIV

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                    • #25
                      Seeing as how the Bible never says He is any of those things, we have nothing to worry about, Eli.
                      sigpic

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                        Seeing as how the Bible never says He is any of those things, we have nothing to worry about, Eli.
                        Omnipresence

                        Psalm 139:7-12 KJV
                        Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

                        1 Kings 8:27 KJV
                        But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

                        Jeremiah 23:23-24 KJV
                        Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

                        Acts 17:27-28 KJV
                        That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

                        Omniscience

                        Hebrews 4:13 KJV
                        Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

                        Omnipotence

                        Job 42:2 KJV
                        I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

                        Revelation 19:6 KJV
                        And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TomO View Post
                          That depends on whether HE gets so wrapped up in the Dogma which man surrounds HIM with that HE forgets to look at the Heart.......

                          I don't think we have to worry about that.
                          The heart is precisely what I'm talking about. There is a real difference between not understanding that God has the attributes of Omnipotence, etc., and claiming that these attributes are "dark forces". The former is error, the latter is presumptuous almost to the point of being blasphemy.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Eli_Cash View Post
                            Omnipresence

                            Psalm 139:7-12 KJV
                            Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

                            1 Kings 8:27 KJV
                            But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

                            Jeremiah 23:23-24 KJV
                            Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

                            Acts 17:27-28 KJV
                            That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

                            Omniscience

                            Hebrews 4:13 KJV
                            Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

                            Omnipotence

                            Job 42:2 KJV
                            I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

                            Revelation 19:6 KJV
                            And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
                            None of those say that He either is present everywhere all at once, that He knows everything, even if it does not exist, or that He can do anything, even that which is against His character or attributes.
                            sigpic

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Eli_Cash View Post
                              The heart is precisely what I'm talking about. There is a real difference between not understanding that God has the attributes of Omnipotence, etc., and claiming that these attributes are "dark forces". The former is error, the latter is presumptuous almost to the point of being blasphemy.
                              Am I to understand you are a worthy Judge of mens hearts?

                              If ones understanding of omnipotence is that it states GOD uses HIS Children as puppets on strings then you would be right in considering this to not be an attribute of OUR LORD and to claim such an attribute to be a dark force.

                              Stop judging by mere appearences and make a right judgement.

                              So tell me Eli....do those who lack understanding of the Trinity risk Judgement as well?

                              Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
                              ~Leonard Cohen

                              sigpic

                              “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
                              ~Dalai Lama XIV

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                                None of those say that He either is present everywhere all at once,
                                Acts 17:27-28 KJV
                                That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
                                (emphasis mine)

                                that He knows everything, even if it does not exist,
                                Perhaps not, but this one does.

                                Matthew 11:21 KJV
                                Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

                                or that He can do anything, even that which is against His character or attributes.
                                Why would he do that which is against his character and attributes? That would contradict his omnipotence, not reinforce it.
                                Last edited by Eli_Cash; July 11th, 2008, 03:25 AM. Reason: errors

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