It is not the new year yet
Common views of God and time.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
It is not the new year yet
So let me get this straight. As an open theist, you believe God does not have foreknowledge, but as a human being you can guarentee the future? :dizzy:
Then again, I forgot you have foreknowledge.
I'd be interested in an answer to these verses. As far as I know the phrase is used twice in Revelation:
Revelation 13:8 makes it look like it was the Lamb that was slain "from the foundation of the world".
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 17:8 leaves out "of the Lamb slain". Is it fair to assume the two phrases mean the same thing and that the thing established at the foundation of the world was the book, not an individual's eternal destiny?
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Do you know what the word "since" means?
And I skipped over your post because I skipped over a bunch of posts in this thread.
Do you believe "since" was before Sept 23, 1980?
If so, how was your real name in the Book of Life before you were born?
Interesting, however if true this would be another death blow to open theism, since it would mean that the efficacy of Christ’s death transcended time.
Was my name in the Book of Life of the Lamb Slain before I was born? No. Was it written in there before the foundation of the world? Not if it wasn't in there before I was born. Has it been written in since? Yes.
The issue is in whether or not Christ was slain before the foundation of the world.It would?
How does the creation of a book do that?
So you believe upon regeneration, a believers name is then written in the Book of Life?
Do you believe that sins you commit in 2008 were bore on the cross by Jesus 1,973 years ago. If so how?
How does the creation of a book do that?
If even one name was written in a book before, or since the foundation of the world, then this without a doubt shows that God is outside of time.
It shows that God sees OUR past, present, and future all at once. How else would He know of one name to enter into a book before anyone was even born?
That was the plan. It didn't happen till later though.
Why does He have to have written anyone's name in the book before that person has asked to be written in?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
How about here?
Leviticus 16
15: Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
16: And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
What was this a type of?
Redemption causes another open theism paradox.
The fact Christ literally took my sins upon himself that I didn't commit until 2,000 years later, and the fact that the sins I'll commit ten years from now were bore by him as well as the ones yesterday doesn't fit with open theism.
Within the perspective of time, justification didn't take place until Christ literally died on the cross. And, from our perspective, justification is not realized by us until we are able to believe it by faith. Outside the perspective of time Christ was able to bear all the sins of all time.
So, the open theist has to come up with the above “He became sin”.
It is the only thing that fits for them.
(Psalms 69:28) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
Who is David talking about, and what is the "book of the living"?
Since you believe your name was written in the book of life when you were saved, how does one get his or her name blotted out of the book?
(psalms 69:28) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
(Rev 3:5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
(Exodus 32:33) And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
The Graphite
New member
Tetelestai, it doesn't say ANYONE's name was written in that book before the foundation of the world. For goodness' sake, pay attention.
It says that those people's names were NOT, EVER written in the Book of Life.
The author is making the point that these unsaved people weren't previously saved and then lost their salvation, they didn't fall away from God, but rather, their names have NEVER been written in the Book of Life.
As for Christ being slain before the foundation, it simply doesn't say that. In the Greek grammer, nouns and verbs are tied to each other via grammatical forms. The translators phrased it in such a way as to be extremely ambiguous. In the Greek it is explicitly clear:
It says their names weren't written in the Book of Life of the Lamb Slain... since the foundation of the world.
It absolutely does not say that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
And it absolutely does not say that someone's name WAS written in the Book of Life since the foundation of the world. It says they were not. Please read the verse you're talking about, before coming up with such ridiculous claims that are, in fact, totally opposite of the scripture you're citing.
:doh:
I moved "The Book of Life" disusssion to the open theism thread.
I will reply to your post there.