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  • #76
    Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
    How do you label all birth control a sin?
    Please don't feed him.




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    • #77
      Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
      Yes. That is why this is a decision that must be between God and the mother and father. It doesn't make it any easier but the medical community does not consider an ectopic removal to be an abortion. Physicians who are serious about the Hippocratic Oath see this surgery as necessary to save a life because there is no chance for the child to complete it's gestation. It's a heartbreaking situation.
      Blatantly false, and that is why it is important that the INTENT of everyone involved is to save both mother and child, even if that does not happen. To arbitrarily "choose" to end a life because of what one individual doctor purports is lazy.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
        How do you label all birth control a sin?
        How do you not?

        Do you understand what birth control is?

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        • #79
          Originally posted by S0ZO View Post
          How do you not?
          So anyone who practices the rhythm method is committing sin?

          Originally posted by S0ZO View Post
          Do you understand what birth control is?
          I do.
          I AM the pie lady!!

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          • #80
            Originally posted by S0ZO View Post
            Blatantly false, and that is why it is important that the INTENT of everyone involved is to save both mother and child, even if that does not happen. To arbitrarily "choose" to end a life because of what one individual doctor purports is lazy.
            The Hippocratic Oath is not "one individual doctor". Are you also aware that in the case of ectopic pregnancy, there is no saving both mother and child? Additionally, most women aren't even aware there is a tubal pregnancy until just before or after the tube has ruptured. By that time, there is absolutely no chance for the infant's survival and certainly no chance for the woman's survival without the surgery to repair her tube.
            And btw, there is nothing arbitrary about the choice to survive. God instilled this in us. His gift of life is not to be treated lightly.
            I AM the pie lady!!

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            • #81
              Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
              Are you also aware that in the case of ectopic pregnancy, there is no saving both mother and child?
              Are you aware that you are wrong?


              I do.
              No, you don't.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
                So anyone who practices the rhythm method is committing sin?
                Upon God's direction to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, would you say it would have been obedience or disobedience for them to tell God that they will have children when it best suits them?

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by S0ZO View Post
                  Are you aware that you are wrong?
                  Please provide the medical proof that mother and baby can survive a tubal ectopic.

                  Originally posted by S0ZO View Post
                  No, you don't.
                  Be so kind as to explain it to me since you believe me uneducated.
                  It's my understanding that birth control is the voluntary limiting of human reproduction, using such means as contraception, sexual abstinence, surgical sterilization, and induced abortion. Please recall my question was how can you label all birth control a sin. I do consider some birth control methods to be sinful such as abortifacients and induced abortion.
                  Last edited by IMJerusha; July 31st, 2014, 12:46 PM.
                  I AM the pie lady!!

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
                    Please provide the medical proof that mother and baby can survive a tubal ectopic.
                    No problem

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by S0ZO View Post
                      Upon God's direction to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, would you say it would have been obedience or disobedience for them to tell God that they will have children when it best suits them?
                      Is it sinful to practice the rhythm method? I'd like a direct answer, please.

                      Being fruitful and multiplying does not mean it is necessary to conceive as often as possible. God gave us brains. I think He expects us to use them.
                      I AM the pie lady!!

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by S0ZO View Post
                        Baruch HaShem! However, this isn't a tubal but rather abdominal case.
                        Even so, the chances for the survival of mother and child were three million to one. Their survival is so awesome but not the norm. I asked for medical proof of a tubal survival...not the evidence of the one in three million case of the abdominal.
                        Last edited by IMJerusha; July 31st, 2014, 12:59 PM.
                        I AM the pie lady!!

                        sigpic

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Granite View Post
                          Please don't feed him.
                          What? Is he a squirrel, a pigeon...what? I'm fairly certain he is an intelligent man who takes the faith seriously.
                          I AM the pie lady!!

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                            I have to admit, Lighthouse, that I'm really remembering back to the harsh words you spoke to me months ago. When you brought up that thread, it all came back to me. I have not been following these recent threads because there is nothing of profit coming from any of them. They all end the same way. I see law trumping grace, and I am left shaking my head.
                            How is law trumping grace?

                            Originally posted by Rusha View Post
                            Projection at it's finest.
                            It's only projection if it's not true about Artie in the least, and is absolutely true of Nick.

                            Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
                            The Hippocratic Oath is not "one individual doctor". Are you also aware that in the case of ectopic pregnancy, there is no saving both mother and child? Additionally, most women aren't even aware there is a tubal pregnancy until just before or after the tube has ruptured. By that time, there is absolutely no chance for the infant's survival and certainly no chance for the woman's survival without the surgery to repair her tube.
                            And btw, there is nothing arbitrary about the choice to survive. God instilled this in us. His gift of life is not to be treated lightly.
                            Just because there is no chance the infant will survive does not mean it is necessary to actively kill it. Being unable to save it and intentionally ending its life are two different things.
                            sigpic

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post


                              Just because there is no chance the infant will survive does not mean it is necessary to actively kill it. Being unable to save it and intentionally ending its life are two different things.
                              Who advocated for that?
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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                                How is law trumping grace?


                                It's only projection if it's not true about Artie in the least, and is absolutely true of Nick.


                                Just because there is no chance the infant will survive does not mean it is necessary to actively kill it. Being unable to save it and intentionally ending its life are two different things.
                                But, as a woman I must say, are you not advocating the deliberate murder of a woman?

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